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tfree32

Jordan Love (QB) Utah State

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1 hour ago, Chas said:

You mean a running back who averages over 4 ypc?

Ronald Jones was on fire this year with a Bucunheardof 4.21 yards per carry. This ranked him at #55 for NFL RB's per carry average.

Peyton Barber was ranked somewhere past #100 with a 3.something average. (fantasyfootballers.org)

There's gotta be some play calling, game situation, ineffective run blocking schemes, and plain pussy or don't give a fuck run blocking involved.

And 2 of those probably aren't Winston's fault. 

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4 hours ago, bucs63 said:

Ronald Jones was on fire this year with a Bucunheardof 4.21 yards per carry. This ranked him at #55 for NFL RB's per carry average.

Peyton Barber was ranked somewhere past #100 with a 3.something average. (fantasyfootballers.org)

There's gotta be some play calling, game situation, ineffective run blocking schemes, and plain pussy or don't give a fuck run blocking involved.

And 2 of those probably aren't Winston's fault. 

Actually, Jones is #35 out of running backs... you have to eliminate the non-RB rushing stats.

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9 hours ago, NNUD28 said:

I don't mean to come off as an "ass slurper" but I do like his no quit attitude...And if he does come back and we finally get a fucking running back that is worth a shit and shore up the line even a little yes that is fine with me..And if they get rid of him they still need to do those two things!!! The Brady and Rivers talk is just plain stupid they would both die behind that line!!!

Bullshit. Brady and Rivers played behind two worse pass pro lines last year than Winston.

All this bullshit talk about the oline being an issue for Winston is laughable.

The pass pro was solid all year and at times very good. I believe they graded out as the 7th best line in football. 

Sure they could use a physical RT that likes to run block, and their overall run blocking needs to be better, but saying that Brady or Rivers would struggle behind the Bucs oline is pure shit. 

Either of those guys, and a lot of QBs that don't hold the ball forever would make that 7th overall ranking look even better. 

Most of the sacks Jaboo took were from blitzes and him holding the ball too long. 

 

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And not for nothing, but if Winston needed tons of weapons (Evans, Godwin, Howard, Brate, Perriman, Hump), a good defense, a kicker who rarely misses, a good oline, a really good running back, good coaching...

If the Bucs finally manage all of those things, then do we really need a 30 mil man at QB??

I guess my point is, if the number one overall pick and someone who wants a big contract, needs ALL of that to be great...then perhaps he's not worth 30 mil a year. Shouldn't the number overall pick and someone who gets paid top 5 QB money, allow you to not need to be really good everywhere else on your team.

If the Bucs do have great weapons next year, build a better run blocking unit, draft or sign a better RB, continue to build a good defense, then couldn't they win with a decent QB like Bridgewater? 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Gulf Shore Steve said:

I'm not sure Bridgewater can run or survive in Arians offense which likes downfield throws and the QB to hang in there a bit longer than most. Bridgewater is probably not stout enough to take the hits any QB will. This is not a comment on the OL. It's a comment on the offense.

Really good points regarding his ability to stay healthy, but Palmer was a statue with a bum knee and managed. I think with what this team has, they can win with a QB who takes care of the ball and makes the neccessary throws.

More than anything, my point is that a 30 million dollar, number overall pick, shouldn't require a team that is good/great at every other spot on the team. 

I'm ok with them bringing Jaboo back for one last chance to improve and win. I'm also not opposed to a 1-2 year option like Rivers and drafting someone next year. 

This team can add a young, physical RT in the draft, another RB (like Clyde or Swift in round 2) or a vet like Johnson, resign most of their defensive FAs, then they can win with a decent QB who takes care of the ball. 

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15 hours ago, fanofdabucs said:

And not for nothing, but if Winston needed tons of weapons (Evans, Godwin, Howard, Brate, Perriman, Hump), a good defense, a kicker who rarely misses, a good oline, a really good running back, good coaching...

 

 

 

Howard and Brate were nonexistent 2019... Perriman picked up the pace when Godwin and Evans went down.. Hump was on the Titans last year so I don't know what your point is on a ton of  weapons...I have told you for 3 years our running game sucks... You seemed to think Barber is a beast he is not, he is garbage and needs to be replaced...the kicker sucked, cost the team two games at a minimum. So, again show me all these weapons I see two excellent Wide receivers,  the two guysare getting feed the ball by the QB people say sucks...

 

4 hours ago, fanofdabucs said:

 

More than anything, my point is that a 30 million dollar, number overall pick, shouldn't require a team that is good/great at every other spot on the team. 

I don't recall me ever saying give him 30 million a year or giving him a 5 year deal.. If some other team is willing to give him a 30 million 5 year  deal I say adios amigo..I did say franchise him if you want to draft another QB for the future so he can sit and watch how this system works (which is supposed to be complex) and if he doesn't work out send him packing .Remember the dude is only 25.

 

4 hours ago, fanofdabucs said:

 

I'm ok with them bringing Jaboo back for one last chance to improve and win. I'm also not opposed to a 1-2 year option like Rivers and drafting someone next year. 

 

  So we agree on something that is great!! Now admit Barber and Jones are not the answer at RB...

 

4 hours ago, fanofdabucs said:

This team can add a young, physical RT in the draft, another RB (like Clyde or Swift in round 2) or a vet like Johnson, resign most of their defensive FAs, then they can win with a decent QB who takes care of the ball. 

 Again no argument! We shouldn't be throwing the ball 50 times a game, if you get a decent RB that should take at least 10 pass attempts a game away..That should at least take away 1 of the 17 int's that were Winston's fault  next season :) 

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NNUD...

Define good running back. What do you want to see?

For me, the answer is a guy who can get 4+ YPC and is an asset in pass protection and as a receiver. A true 3 down back. I do not think Barber is the answer. Jones I feel is a liability in the passing game but has the potential to improve.

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16 minutes ago, Gulf Shore Steve said:

Make of this what you will but the Bucs were 14th or 15th in the NFL in rushing attempts but 5th from the bottom in terms of yards per attempt.

The rushing game was not good. I agree with that. I do not think Barber is good enough. Jones has potential but is NOT the 'stud' the Buccaneers had hoped for.

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I can't and won't begin to argue or waste my time with anyone who thinks Winston didn't have enough weapons or is trying to make some ridiculous point about how he's missing something offensively to make him a successful QB.

A) if you think that, you're clueless.

Any QB in the league would trade their receiving options with Winston. What's my point in naming Hump, a WR that served as one of Winston's best third down and slot options for 4 years??? Geee idk. What other QB has 2 pro bowl WRs? Pffffft

B. )Bashing the oline by saying other QBs would get killed just shows you really have no clue what you're watching or don't watch any other teams 

Ugh...nevermind.

Pointless.

 

 

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Bucs 1,521 rushing yards 95 yards/game

KC 1,569 rushing yards 98 yards/game

Total defense 

Bucs 15th

KC 17th

Mahomes 7 Ints

Winston 30 Ints

KC superbowl champs 

Wonder if in KC their fans are saying, man if Mahomes just had X, Y and Z?

All this bullshit about rushing, defense, being young, lasiks, aliens...

What a joke.

 

 

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3 hours ago, fanofdabucs said:

Bucs 1,521 rushing yards 95 yards/game

KC 1,569 rushing yards 98 yards/game

Total defense 

Bucs 15th

KC 17th

Mahomes 7 Ints

Winston 30 Ints

KC superbowl champs 

Wonder if in KC their fans are saying, man if Mahomes just had X, Y and Z?

All this bullshit about rushing, defense, being young, lasiks, aliens...

What a joke.

 

 

Why argue with you ? You know it all? You are always right !!! Winston had the best of everything we should have been in the super bowl!!!!  Only fan knows what he see's, Only fan is correct when it comes to the line with his superior football knowledge..I was unaware that we had the best o-line in the league..This great O-LINE allowed 47 fucking sacks Patrick Mahomes was sacked 23 times you are correct the line is fantastic ..I know all the sacks were because he holds onto the ball too long....please!!!!! And of those 1521 yards rushing you were babbling about 295 were from Winston.. Both our RB'S suck out loud ...Remember all those 100 yard games our RB's had? Me neither because they both suck!!!!  Please spare me your bullshit of superior knowledge!! You claiming Barber as nfl starting rb is proof you don't know as much as you think you do!! I am still waiting on you to tell me how much of an impact Brate and Howard had this season those awesome weapons that they are...For fucks sake you even mentioned  Humphries and he's on the Titans...He was pretty much a non factor now that he doesn't have Winston throwing him the ball!!!  

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19 hours ago, NNUD28 said:

Why argue with you ? You know it all? You are always right !!! Winston had the best of everything we should have been in the super bowl!!!!  Only fan knows what he see's, Only fan is correct when it comes to the line with his superior football knowledge..I was unaware that we had the best o-line in the league..This great O-LINE allowed 47 fucking sacks Patrick Mahomes was sacked 23 times you are correct the line is fantastic ..I know all the sacks were because he holds onto the ball too long....please!!!!! And of those 1521 yards rushing you were babbling about 295 were from Winston.. Both our RB'S suck out loud ...Remember all those 100 yard games our RB's had? Me neither because they both suck!!!!  Please spare me your bullshit of superior knowledge!! You claiming Barber as nfl starting rb is proof you don't know as much as you think you do!! I am still waiting on you to tell me how much of an impact Brate and Howard had this season those awesome weapons that they are...For fucks sake you even mentioned  Humphries and he's on the Titans...He was pretty much a non factor now that he doesn't have Winston throwing him the ball!!!  

Oh nuddy..

Ok bud, you're right..everyone on the team sucks expect for Jesus Winston. 

Jones sucks 

The oline is all terrible 

Cut everyone and build a team around Winston.

 

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19 hours ago, NNUD28 said:

Why argue with you ? You know it all? You are always right !!! Winston had the best of everything we should have been in the super bowl!!!!  Only fan knows what he see's, Only fan is correct when it comes to the line with his superior football knowledge..I was unaware that we had the best o-line in the league..This great O-LINE allowed 47 fucking sacks Patrick Mahomes was sacked 23 times you are correct the line is fantastic ..I know all the sacks were because he holds onto the ball too long....please!!!!! And of those 1521 yards rushing you were babbling about 295 were from Winston.. Both our RB'S suck out loud ...Remember all those 100 yard games our RB's had? Me neither because they both suck!!!!  Please spare me your bullshit of superior knowledge!! You claiming Barber as nfl starting rb is proof you don't know as much as you think you do!! I am still waiting on you to tell me how much of an impact Brate and Howard had this season those awesome weapons that they are...For fucks sake you even mentioned  Humphries and he's on the Titans...He was pretty much a non factor now that he doesn't have Winston throwing him the ball!!!  

So I post FACTS about our rushing yards vs the Super Bowl champs, and I don't know what I'm talking about?? 

And you're comeback was that Winston was responsible for 295 so..???

I never once said Barber was great of that that the oline was great. 

Jones was solid last year. He didn't fucking "suck" no matter how loud you whine about it. 

Reading your post is like watching some of these "news" outlets, full of fake news bullshit.

Hump played with Winston for 4 years, that is why he was brought up. Brate has been a good security blanket for Winston. He has 2 pro bowl WRs. 

Are you really trying to make an argument that Winston hasn't had enough talent around him to succeed?? Please stop.

The oline isn't this huge liability like you seem to think. More fake news. 

Sorry if I come off as a "know it all", but I can see how it comes off that way when arguing with someone who doesn't know much. 

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21 hours ago, NNUD28 said:

Why argue with you ? You know it all? You are always right !!! Winston had the best of everything we should have been in the super bowl!!!!  Only fan knows what he see's, Only fan is correct when it comes to the line with his superior football knowledge..I was unaware that we had the best o-line in the league..This great O-LINE allowed 47 fucking sacks Patrick Mahomes was sacked 23 times you are correct the line is fantastic ..I know all the sacks were because he holds onto the ball too long....please!!!!! And of those 1521 yards rushing you were babbling about 295 were from Winston.. Both our RB'S suck out loud ...Remember all those 100 yard games our RB's had? Me neither because they both suck!!!!  Please spare me your bullshit of superior knowledge!! You claiming Barber as nfl starting rb is proof you don't know as much as you think you do!! I am still waiting on you to tell me how much of an impact Brate and Howard had this season those awesome weapons that they are...For fucks sake you even mentioned  Humphries and he's on the Titans...He was pretty much a non factor now that he doesn't have Winston throwing him the ball!!!  

Nnud, c'mon man - Mahomes is a lot better when taking risky throws than Winston is.  Mahomes is a LOT more mobile than Winston is.  Mahomes gets rid of the ball faster than Winston does.

But you're going to compare the number of times Winston was sacked to the number of times Mahomes was sacked and indicate that it's all about the OL?  And as for the RBs - that last game of the year, RoJo had 106 yards.  Sure, the kicker blew 9 points, but it wasn't the lack of a running game that had Winston throw a pick 6 in overtime to lose the game.

Out of the 30 interceptions Jaboo threw, I'd estimate CONSERVATIVELY that he threw 6-8 of them under little or no pressure at all.  Not to mention that he threw SEVEN pick sixes.  MORE pick sixes than anyone since NINETEEN FRIKKIN FIFTY.  It's bad if you throw 4.  Seven is insanity.  He's been in the top ten for pick sixes for three of his five seasons, but led the league in his final year of a contract. He simply doesn't understand risk management.  At all.

If his trend was that his INT rate was dropping, I'd be all on the Winston train.  Tossing for 5K is no joke.  But he is clearly a weapon both against and for the other team.  Sometimes it works in our favor, but the fact that sometimes it does not is enough to realize that he's not our guy and we need to find another answer ASAFP.

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23 minutes ago, Justafan said:

Nnud, c'mon man - Mahomes is a lot better when taking risky throws than Winston is.  Mahomes is a LOT more mobile than Winston is.  Mahomes gets rid of the ball faster than Winston does.

But you're going to compare the number of times Winston was sacked to the number of times Mahomes was sacked and indicate that it's all about the OL?  And as for the RBs - that last game of the year, RoJo had 106 yards.  Sure, the kicker blew 9 points, but it wasn't the lack of a running game that had Winston throw a pick 6 in overtime to lose the game.

Out of the 30 interceptions Jaboo threw, I'd estimate CONSERVATIVELY that he threw 6-8 of them under little or no pressure at all.  Not to mention that he threw SEVEN pick sixes.  MORE pick sixes than anyone since NINETEEN FRIKKIN FIFTY.  It's bad if you throw 4.  Seven is insanity.  He's been in the top ten for pick sixes for three of his five seasons, but led the league in his final year of a contract. He simply doesn't understand risk management.  At all.

If his trend was that his INT rate was dropping, I'd be all on the Winston train.  Tossing for 5K is no joke.  But he is clearly a weapon both against and for the other team.  Sometimes it works in our favor, but the fact that sometimes it does not is enough to realize that he's not our guy and we need to find another answer ASAFP.

I didn't start the comparison.. I was just showing that he didn't get sacked a lot as a matter of fact my number of 23 was off according to ESPN it was 17 times ..I never said Winston was better than Mahomes shit Ray Charles can see the difference... Would you like me to show you the amount of INTS Peyton Manning had in his first 5 years it was 12 more than Jaboo.....Did Peyton play with 3 different OC'S  in his first 5 years...Just who do you want to bring in to replace him?? 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/sacks/dir/desc

 

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28 minutes ago, NNUD28 said:

I didn't start the comparison.. I was just showing that he didn't get sacked a lot as a matter of fact my number of 23 was off according to ESPN it was 17 times ..I never said Winston was better than Mahomes shit Ray Charles can see the difference... Would you like me to show you the amount of INTS Peyton Manning had in his first 5 years it was 12 more than Jaboo.....Did Peyton play with 3 different OC'S  in his first 5 years...Just who do you want to bring in to replace him?? 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/sacks/dir/desc

 

Peyton never threw for 7 pick sixes.  Hell, Favre has the grand total of 31 pick sixes as the grand all time leader, and HE never threw for more than 4.

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20 hours ago, NNUD28 said:

Just who do you want to bring to replace him??

And herein lies the biggest issue.

So do you want to pay someone 30 mil a year, just because there isn't someone is a clear upgrade?

If they can put together a deal full of incentives and one that gives then "outs" every year AND they bring in some to develop this year or next, then I'm ok with seeing if one more year in BA's system works out. 

But if Winston wants 30 mil a year and a long term deal full of guarantees, then I'd rather cut bait.

 

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