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tfree32

Jordan Love (QB) Utah State

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4 hours ago, Chas said:

I disagree that only three of the QBs in this year's draft are better than Winston.

It is obvious that Burrow is regarded that way, but I worry about this being a one-year aberration for him. Tua, if healthy, I agree is an upgrade. His health though is a major question and he has a history of getting injured. To be honest, if the Buccaneers had a chance to take either of those guys I would prefer they trade down and get extra picks based on the potential downside of both of them.

I think Jordan Love and Jacob Eason are clear upgrades over Winston.

How can you make this assessment having never seen them play in the NFL???  

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8 hours ago, Chas said:

I disagree that only three of the QBs in this year's draft are better than Winston.

It is obvious that Burrow is regarded that way, but I worry about this being a one-year aberration for him. Tua, if healthy, I agree is an upgrade. His health though is a major question and he has a history of getting injured. To be honest, if the Buccaneers had a chance to take either of those guys I would prefer they trade down and get extra picks based on the potential downside of both of them.

I think Jordan Love and Jacob Eason are clear upgrades over Winston. Perhaps not in year one, but they have a chance to develop. I think Winston has been given enough time and has not shown that he can develop any further. Jalen Hurts makes me think of Winston a bit, but he has shown progression while in college where Jameis got worse each year after his first. Jake Fromm lacks top-end arm strength but would be an upgrade over Winston. I am not sure if Arians would change the offense for him, but he is much better than Winston is taking care of the ball and leading his receivers. In short, I think the Buccaneers could take Love, Eason or Fromm and upgrade from Winston. Hurts is a borderline candidate for me.

Burrows a one year aberration? Watched all but one game he played. It was pretty obvious the kid is a hell of a QB. He's unbelievably accurate, makes correct and quick decisions, can scramble to extend plays and throws well on the run, has a strong arm and is a leader. Other than that, he's just really good at football. Any suggestion that the Bucs pass on Burrows if he was somehow available is one of the single most asinine things I've read in here in a long time.

I should have probably stopped reading there, but then you say Love and Eason are "clear upgrades" to Winston. Wtf?? Based on what?

Wow..that post was just..wow.

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Burrows is so head and shoulders above the rest of the QB class that it isn't even worth mentioning.  There is Burrows and then there is everyone else.  Love and Eason both will need development time, especially Eason.  Love looks tentative at times and, like Winston, holds on to the ball just a little bit too long.  He has some legs to stretch plays but you don't have to be an NFL rocket scientist to notice his decision making is suspect.   Neither would be upgrades.  Fromm wouldn't be an upgrade.  Even Hurts, who is a better QB than the Love, Eason or Fromm,, wouldn't be an upgrade.  Hell, Hurts has better overall stats than them.  Time has shown over and over again that over drafting on QB is not a pathway to success.  Someone mentioned before and maybe a bit tongue in cheek, but the Bucs should break the bank to get Burrows.  Why?  He would unify the fans.  He would bring a better excitement to the Bucs.  God can only hope he doesn't put himself into bad situations with Uber drivers and leaves the crab legs in Publix.  The boy can outright ball.  He has poise.  He holds his team  He holds his teammates accountable on the field.  There are so many upsides to Burrows that when you start trying to find something wrong, he just gets better.  Of course he hasn't taken one NFL snap, but he is already better than Winston.  He is already head and shoulders of any first round QB drafted in quite a long time.  

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16 hours ago, NNUD28 said:

How can you make this assessment having never seen them play in the NFL???  

Based on an extrapolation of their play in college. Just like EVERY OTHER potential draft pick. Last I checked NO person entering the NFL Draft has played in the NFL.

12 hours ago, Axe said:

Oh I don't know. Maybe because neither has exhibited the tendency to throw a fuckin pick 6 to start every game?

Yeah... that is one of the major criteria I have.

12 hours ago, fanofdabucs said:

Burrows a one year aberration? Watched all but one game he played. It was pretty obvious the kid is a hell of a QB. He's unbelievably accurate, makes correct and quick decisions, can scramble to extend plays and throws well on the run, has a strong arm and is a leader. Other than that, he's just really good at football. Any suggestion that the Bucs pass on Burrows if he was somehow available is one of the single most asinine things I've read in here in a long time.

I should have probably stopped reading there, but then you say Love and Eason are "clear upgrades" to Winston. Wtf?? Based on what?

Wow..that post was just..wow.

Read what I said a bit closer. I did not say he WAS a one-year aberration. I said I worry about it. This is the Buccaneers we are discussing. Whatever can go wrong does go wrong for our favorite team. Burrow if selected by any team other than the Bengals and the Buccaneers probably goes into the hall of fame, but if one of those two cursed franchises take him all bets are off.

Winston is a turnover machine who has gotten progressively worse since his title game in college. I wanted to trade down when the Buccaneers had a choice between Winston and Mariota because despite the hype I did not think either of them was #1 pick material. I think that opinion is looking pretty solid now.

Winston is not as bad as Ryan Leaf, but he is not a franchise QB that was worth the #1 pick. He is not Jamarcus Russel, Todd Marinovich, or Rick Mirer either. I would lean towards Winston being a bust. He has killed his team's chances more often than raised them.

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42 minutes ago, NNUD28 said:

Tampa Bay Buccaneers Franchise Encyclopedia

All-time Passing Leader: Jameis Winston 1,563/2,548, 19,737 yds, 121 TD

Figures! 

Josh Freeman is #3 on that list... so it is not like the list is all world. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Luke McCown, and Tim Rattay all have a higher QB rating.

Some stats are useful... mostly wins and losses. Other stats are pointless... like being the leading passer on a downtrodden cursed franchise.

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36 minutes ago, Chas said:

Josh Freeman is #3 on that list... so it is not like the list is all world. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Luke McCown, and Tim Rattay all have a higher QB rating.

Some stats are useful... mostly wins and losses. Other stats are pointless... like being the leading passer on a downtrodden cursed franchise.

Point is calling him a bust is wrong..He is far from a bust not may "bust" have tossed 121 touchdowns in 5 years including Tim Rattay, Luke McCown and Josh Freeman  hell Fitzpatrick has been in the league what 14 -15 years so I guess I am not understanding your definition of a bust 

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22 minutes ago, NNUD28 said:

Point is calling him a bust is wrong..He is far from a bust not may "bust" have tossed 121 touchdowns in 5 years including Tim Rattay, Luke McCown and Josh Freeman  hell Fitzpatrick has been in the league what 14 -15 years so I guess I am not understanding your definition of a bust 

121 TDs and no playoffs. One of those stats is more important than the others.

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55 minutes ago, NNUD28 said:

121 TD's and three head coaches in 5 years.. Garbage defenses (although this years did improve the second half) 

Yes, but one HC was his former OC... so not that much change.

Let us sum up to say you think he is worth big money and I do not. That way we do not need to discuss the 88 interceptions and 20 plus lost fumbles.

josh-norman-pick-6-against-tampa-bay.gif

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2 minutes ago, Chas said:

Yes, but one HC was his former OC... so not that much change.

Let us sum up to say you think he is worth big money and I do not. That way we do not need to discuss the 88 interceptions and 20 plus lost fumbles.

josh-norman-pick-6-against-tampa-bay.gif

I never said that.It depends on the contract structure...I would prefer keeping him over say Tom Brady (he would die behind our line) Philip Rivers he is fading fast Cam Newton Andy Dalton or Teddy Bridgewater...I am not against drafting a QB but I would franchise his ass for a year so the kid could learn the system. He knows he would have to preform well or he won't get a big contract somewhere else and if he played well then offer a 3-4 year deal at good money

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You guys can stop because you're both right.

Winston has proven to be very good at times and fucking awful at others.

The word "bust" is tricky. Winston was the number one overall pick, so if he doesn't sign a second contract and leaves with zero playoff appearances, then he would have been a "bust" for the Bucs..regardless of who's fault that is. (First it was not enough weapons, then no oline, then no coaching, then no defense)..However, if he resigns or signs elsewhere and continues to start, then you can't label him a draft bust.

 

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Nuddy, since you've been kinda a Winston ass slurper...IF he comes back next year, can we please drop all the fucking excuses?

He will have been surrounded by great coaching for two years, has tons of weapons, the defense is good enough to win...

A franchise, number overall pick is supposed to minimize the need for greatness at every position and should be able to overcome team shortcomings..but with Jaboo, for some reason, there always seem to be this thought that he needs to have all these things in place to have success.

I just to want to hear from the Jaboo lovers if they think Winston has everything he needs to be able to lead this team to a winning record next year? Assumimg the keep the defense intact and add a couple pieces. 

Or will you come up with more excuses for 42 turnovers??

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6 hours ago, fanofdabucs said:

I just to want to hear from the Jaboo lovers if they think Winston has everything he needs to be able to lead this team to a winning record next year? Assumimg the keep the defense intact and add a couple pieces. 

 

He had the tools this past year to have a winning record.  His dumbass decisions destroyed any hope of a winning season.  IF he is back in 2020, he has the tools to win, but I am sure he will  fuck it up again. 

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On 2/12/2020 at 2:51 PM, Chas said:

Yes, but one HC was his former OC... so not that much change.

Let us sum up to say you think he is worth big money and I do not. That way we do not need to discuss the 88 interceptions and 20 plus lost fumbles.

josh-norman-pick-6-against-tampa-bay.gif

This video epitomizes the entire problem. There is less than 5 minutes gone and the Bucs are already down by 10... How many times have we watched this scenario play out?

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On 2/13/2020 at 7:50 AM, fanofdabucs said:

Nuddy, since you've been kinda a Winston ass slurper...IF he comes back next year, can we please drop all the fucking excuses?

 

I don't mean to come off as an "ass slurper" but I do like his no quit attitude...And if he does come back and we finally get a fucking running back that is worth a shit and shore up the line even a little yes that is fine with me..And if they get rid of him they still need to do those two things!!! The Brady and Rivers talk is just plain stupid they would both die behind that line!!!

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57 minutes ago, NNUD28 said:

I don't mean to come off as an "ass slurper" but I do like his no quit attitude...And if he does come back and we finally get a fucking running back that is worth a shit and shore up the line even a little yes that is fine with me..And if the get rid of him they still need to do those two things!!! The Brady and Rivers talk is just plain stupid they would both die behind that line!!!

So you want to turn captain turnover into a game manager? Why the hell would a team pay a high price tag for a game manager?

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32 minutes ago, Chas said:

So you want to turn captain turnover into a game manager? Why the hell would a team pay a high price tag for a game manager?

How is having a good running back making him a game manager ?? They threw the ball 664 times last year because our running game sucked!!! I don't think it is asking too much to get a decent running back..You don't like the dude I get it but please don't be ridiculous!!!

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32 minutes ago, NNUD28 said:

How is having a good running back making him a game manager ?? They threw the ball 664 times last year because our running game sucked!!! I don't think it is asking too much to get a decent running back..You don't like the dude I get it but please don't be ridiculous!!!

No, they threw the ball 664 times last yr because as this video depicts, they were down 10-0 or 14-0 early because of his bonehead moves like this and HAD to throw the fucking ball

josh-norman-pick-6-against-tampa-bay.gif

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1 hour ago, NNUD28 said:

How is having a good running back making him a game manager ?? They threw the ball 664 times last year because our running game sucked!!! I don't think it is asking too much to get a decent running back..You don't like the dude I get it but please don't be ridiculous!!!

You mean a running back who averages over 4 ypc?

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