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MSN Article states the obvious

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23 minutes ago, Bucaroo Bonzai said:

They were both shitty options at #1, and if a good trade was offered, the Bucs should have grabbed it.

Yeah, and imagine the ensuing shitstorm when the Bucs passed up finally getting a franchise QB to pull the perennial cellar dwellers up to contender level.

The experts were sucking both Heisman QB's dicks so hard and often they were going back to back at the top and the Bucs were just lucky to have the choice between them. A no brainer. Perfect. No brainer.  :rotflmao

But c'mon. What are the odds all the picks they would have garnered would have had any more impact before they had their disappointing asses cut?

Go Bucs

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4 minutes ago, Gulf Shore Steve said:

I'll argue that BB is somewhat correct that the picks should have been traded but that was never going to happen with either player.

You have a shot at a possible Franchise QB when you've already got Glennon as your starter. No doubt any team trades the pick. 

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11 hours ago, Bucaroo Bonzai said:

They were both shitty options at #1, and if a good trade was offered, the Bucs should have grabbed it.

I love ya, my longtime cyberfriend,  but they were both the consensus options by every expert at 1 & 2....the big debate was “which one?”

These same experts were even lamenting how the teams drafting 1& 2 the following season “missed it by one year” when they were forced to draft Goff and Wentz.

Funny how that shit turns around....because I wish we had one of those two options.

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10 hours ago, Gulf Shore Steve said:

There was no way those two guys weren't going to be the first two picks in the draft.

I agree, but I think if we were offered good compensation, we should have traded.

9 hours ago, Buc said:

the pick was solid at the time.  . .the coaching and FO moves have not been since

I disagree.  Mariotta had a lot of question marks about him, and the complaint was that he was a bit of a project and his skillset wouldn't translate well to the NFL game.   If Mariotta didn't have those question marks, we wouldn't have taken Winston with all his baggage.  

But then Winston, has regressed some from his previous season, and he had a lot of friggin baggage that was apparent to everyone who wasn't an FSU fan.....
1. Stealing soda at BK and being belligerent about it.  It wasn't just taking the soda, but his behavior towards the female employee.
2. Crab legs.
3. BB gun war that did thousands in damage.
4. Alleged rape, and then jumping on the table.

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24 minutes ago, MadMac said:

I love ya, my longtime cyberfriend,  but they were both the consensus options by every expert at 1 & 2....the big debate was “which one?”

These same experts were even lamenting how the teams drafting 1& 2 the following season “missed it by one year” when they were forced to draft Goff and Wentz.

Funny how that shit turns around....because I wish we had one of those two options.

Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't have gone at #1 and #2.  I'm saying that if a good trade was offered, we should have gone for it.  They might have been the two prettiest girls at the bar, but if we had the chance we should have gone elsewhere instead of taking one of them home.

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3 hours ago, Bucaroo Bonzai said:

I agree, but I think if we were offered good compensation, we should have traded.

I disagree.  Mariotta had a lot of question marks about him, and the complaint was that he was a bit of a project and his skillset wouldn't translate well to the NFL game.   If Mariotta didn't have those question marks, we wouldn't have taken Winston with all his baggage.  

But then Winston, has regressed some from his previous season, and he had a lot of friggin baggage that was apparent to everyone who wasn't an FSU fan.....
1. Stealing soda at BK and being belligerent about it.  It wasn't just taking the soda, but his behavior towards the female employee.
2. Crab legs.
3. BB gun war that did thousands in damage.
4. Alleged rape, and then jumping on the table.

Whether you agree with it or not, they were going 1 or 2. So your 4 or 5 year statement of we should have made a trade was never going to happen no matter how many times you repeat it.

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Why keep blathering on about them going 1 and 2 when I have repeatedly said that was going to be the case?

My point was that if there was a good trade to be had, we should have gone for it.  I said it at the time we made the pick, and here we are working on our 5th year of pretty crappy QB play, and somehow I was wrong about it?  WTH?

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8 hours ago, Bucaroo Bonzai said:

Why keep blathering on about them going 1 and 2 when I have repeatedly said that was going to be the case?

My point was that if there was a good trade to be had, we should have gone for it.  I said it at the time we made the pick, and here we are working on our 5th year of pretty crappy QB play, and somehow I was wrong about it?  WTH?

You were wrong about it. But you're right about it now.

The Bucs in the draft seem to lose like some rube suckered into a three cup shell game by slick street cons.

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I wanted the Bucs to trade the pick. I could never figure out why they were so over the moon about Winston. His criminal history, contempt for women, propensity for turnovers and dumb plays, and lack of respect for the team at FSU made him a likely bust in my view. He may as well be JaMarcus Russell...great arm, but dumber than shit.

So if the Bucs kept the pick. I preferred Mariota. He's a far better human being. He doesn't have the arm Winston does, but is far smarter. He's more mobile and versatile. I've been amazed by the shitty job the Titans have done building an offense around his skillset. The criticisms of him are mostly valid. But he's also had a ridiculous amount of coaches and coaching changes, with none of them making an effort to focus on what he can do well. Mariota also has had some of the shittiest receiving talent in the league. So he hasn't had much help. I still think that in the right system, he could really take off. It would be fun to see him in KC as Mahomes' backup or in New England working with Brady. 

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I NEVER said they weren't going 1 and 2.  Before we drafted him, I felt and stated that if there was a good trade to be had we should trade the damn pick and let some other teams grab them.  Both had big flaws, and their flaws really didn't change from then until now.  Our decision was mostly that Mariota wasn't a legitimate #1 pick, so we had to go with Winston because he seemed to have franchise QB talent even though he had all that damn baggage and questionable decision making.

By all means draft QBs in the later rounds and have them actually compete for their job.  WTH, let's just draft some later round QB, bring in Mariota, and a journeyman QB, have them compete for the job, and we'll end up with better QB play than we've had in a decade.

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So if Tua or Burrows is on the board when the Bucs pick, you think we should pass and bring in Mariota and try to hit on a later round QB?

If they pass on a Tua or Burrows, I pull a Tundra and peace the fuck out.

With your logic we should pass on a first round OT because McCrae and Walker were busts. We should pass on DE because Adams and Curry were busts. We should pass on CBs because VH3 hasn't worked out.

We should just trade out of the entire draft because we might draft another bust.

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10 hours ago, fanofdabucs said:

So if Tua or Burrows is on the board when the Bucs pick, you think we should pass and bring in Mariota and try to hit on a later round QB?

If they pass on a Tua or Burrows, I pull a Tundra and peace the fuck out.

With your logic we should pass on a first round OT because McCrae and Walker were busts. We should pass on DE because Adams and Curry were busts. We should pass on CBs because VH3 hasn't worked out.

We should just trade out of the entire draft because we might draft another bust.

I would disagree with that, because drafting a QB number one is always different. A first-round pick at any other position may soon be outed as a bust, and the coaching and management will be criticized and the team will move on. But when you take a quarterback at that pick, especially one that's anointed to be the savior from day one, the team has essentially mortgaged next 3 or 4 years against that player's results. A lot of us knew Winston was a piece of shit in every single way, including his playing talent, the day he was drafted. But nobody listens to us because we're wrong as many times as we're right. But the coaches and general manager can't do that. They have to try to make that pick work. And keep trying and keep trying. That's why the Bucs suck. It's no surprise to me and shouldn't be to any Bucs fan that their only Super Bowl was won with a journeyman QB and a badass defense.  Build the team from the lines back and it may be a slower process, but you'll be getting gradually better instead of twisting in the wind with a dumbass doofus clown like Winston.

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Ditto on Winston.  He had multiple run ins with the law and multiple incidents that clearly showed he was a low character guy.  And these occurred in Tallahassee where most dirt on their star QB is going to get swept under the rug.

Of course, never say never, BUT our current pattern isn't working.  Maybe with different owners, it can, but with the Bucs if the talented QB doesn't succeed quickly, then we dump the coaching staff (and possibly GM) and then if the new HC can't succeed with our stud QB, they have to start over and get a year to turn it all around.  Yeah, in an ideal world, they would evaluate the QB and move on after a year or two, but with the Bucs, they stay for 5 years almost regardless of their performance on the field.

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I guess it's possible to get better with a journeyman, mid rounder, late rounder, etc. However most of the teams who are successful are using a first rounder or second rounder or a guy they are paying a ton of money to. It's the quickest way to improve.

I see a lot written about Bridgewater instead of Winston and I don't know. Teddy may not turn it over as much but he also isn't as dynamic and probably couldn't keep up with the lack of the Bucs defense. The Saints defense is very good. Last week, Teddy underthrew a number of balls which ended up as catches.

I just think not drafting a QB #1 because other guys haven't worked out and/or were held onto too long is just poor reasoning.

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38 minutes ago, Gulf Shore Steve said:

I guess it's possible to get better with a journeyman, mid rounder, late rounder, etc. However most of the teams who are successful are using a first rounder or second rounder or a guy they are paying a ton of money to. It's the quickest way to improve.

There are 19 1st and 2 2nd rounders starting right now.  I believe it's what, 4 more 1st rounders being replaced do to injury/sudden retirement. The Skins just took one but didn't start him yet. That leaves a few that made it like Dak, Wilson, and Brady. Or even Fitzpatrick whose back and forth right now with a 1st rounder for the job.

Makes it hard to argue against taking 'em at the top. Even if it's the hapless Bucs making the pick.

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1st and 2nd rounders get much more opportunities though.  A 4-6th rounder doesn't get 3-5 years of starts to prove themselves.  So it really isn't a slam dunk, and close to half the starters came from other rounds.

It isn't simply a matter that we've had some misses in the past, but also the organization doesn't seem to do a good job of developing them, and isn't willing or able to quickly move on from a QB who isn't panning out.  Maybe with better owners, a HC could move on from a QB who isn't cutting it, but with the Bucs if JF5 sucks ass, the HC also loses his job.

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