Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Axe

Draft thread

Recommended Posts

27 minutes ago, fanofdabucs said:

Charlie Casserly just said Devin White will be the defensive rookie of the year and was the best defensive player in the draft. 

Charlie smokes good stuff :rasta

 

But By God!! I hope he's right!!! :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, bucs63 said:

With this draft that has the fanbase so excited, we should be able to see a RB do a little better than Barber's 3.7 average last year and hopefully Winston isn't forced to bring the team average up like he and Fitz did last year. Can Gabbert run effectively?

Gabbert averaged 3 yards per carry at AZ, that glorious year where he replaced Palmer, threw 6TDs, 6 INTs, completed 55% of his throws and had a 72 QBR.  God help us if that chihuahua fucker ever sees the field. 

3 hours ago, fanofdabucs said:

Just heard the Bucs signed a DE who is blind in one eye. 

:ROTFLMAO:

Why am I not surprised. They’ve hired two dykes to be assistant coiches. Why not just go full retard and sign a completely blind DE. Or kicker. There’s blind golfers, there must be blind kickers. I know Darci Glazer cares deeply about diversity, let’s hire a blind quad that has a special permission to tongue activate a football gun that fires the ball from his wheelchair at the goalposts. 

3 hours ago, rook said:

Damn I had my money on the totally blind guy in a wheelchair playing LB with an application in the NFL to allow him to use a German shepherd on the field.

Dude, very strange I typed my little thing there and then just read yours. Deranged minds decay alike. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, bucs63 said:

The three of them were milking a dead cow. At least one of them should have thought of fucking it. 

This is the kind of thinking we need inside the walls of One Suck Place.  Good runt beating Christ, this kind of genius is not commonly found. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I made the earlier post kind of tongue in cheek, but allow me to be serious here for a moment.

The Devin White pick is the best pick we have made in a long time. He's going to be a difference-maker. That being said, the rest of this draft is a big ole question mark (for me, anyway). I agree, they needed to upgrade the defensive backfield, but I'm not sure they did that; maybe they did, but I have my doubts when you draft a guy that has had 3 major surgeries on any part of his legs (let alone his knees). They needed to upgrade and add depth to the O-Line. They damned sure didn't do that. They could have had some contingency in place for QB and RB. They didn't do that either. They signed Santos to an extension (which was a good move in my opinion), then they draft a guy in the freaking 5th round that is mediocre at best outside 50. They didn't move JPP or McCoy or Brate, which will turn out to be a bigger mistake, and because they didn't do that, they will end up getting nothing for any of them (and I am convinced they could have gotten something for any/all of them during the course of the draft). This will cause them to be a cap room hell (again) because of incompetence between ownership and the general manager (again). They really didn't replace Humphries, which will be huge because he was Winston's security blanket. Sure they drafted a 5'8 wideout that is fast, but there are plenty of small dudes that run fast.

I could be completely off-base here, but this draft was a huge letdown. Considering the Bucs probably drafted the 3rd or 4th best player in the entire draft, I would still give them a draft grade of a D. That's not good, guys. The silver lining might be that what Arians and company see on film lend them to believe that the personnel wasn't the issue and the coaching was. I want to believe that. I want to believe in Arians, but considering I had the same blind faith in fucking Lovie Smith, I am not so sure.

It is going to be an interesting season. Hopefully, they know what the fuck they are doing, because I sure don't know what the fuck they are doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like White and think he could be a fantastic player in the NFL. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't like him other than position fit and Arians has some kind words for you if you do.

Quote

They could have had some contingency in place for QB and RB. They didn't do that either.

QB no. I don't see the point of bringing in a QB who isn't going to be the future of the team. If the current starter gets hurt or sucks, the draftee isn't going to help. RB I can see but RBs can be obtained all over the draft including after it. Had the Bucs drafted Bruce Anderson instead of the kicker in the 5th round, I'd have been happy with the pick.

Quote

They signed Santos to an extension (which was a good move in my opinion), then they draft a guy in the freaking 5th round that is mediocre at best outside 50.

I don't like drafting a kicker but this evaluation is not correct. The weakness in Santos game is leg strength. The drafted kicker has a very strong leg and is not mediocre over 50 yards.

The DBs I don't have a problem with. Any evaluation of the Bucs DBs from the last few years would be poor. This includes both coverage and tackling. There was some guy on PR I noticed who tried to claim that Ryan Smith was good or at least not horrible.  He's horrible.These are the same people questioning the DBs drafted me. Pardon me while I completely dismiss fan evaluation and go with the coaches. Whether these 3 guys turn this around I have no idea but the DC is a DB specialist so I'll go with his thoughts over mine. In addition, the defense uses more DBs with one as hybrid LBer/SS (Buchanon and probably Edwards in this defense) making the need to get more DBs in the room higher.

Hump wasn't being replaced in this draft. In addition, Brate is one of Winstons security blankets and how many security blankets does the guy need. He should be able to operate with the Bucs receiving/TE corps as it is still amongst the best in the league without Hump. Meanwhile the 6th rounder can probably get on the field as a returner which is more than most 6th rounders. I have no idea why this pick would be criticized when put into perspective.

McCoy wasn't tradeable. If he was he wouldn't still be on the roster. Not sure what is difficult to put those two pieces of information together. He's also the lesser flexible of JPP and McCoy within this defense. JPP can play Edge, DE, and 3 Tech and probably to a decent level (although still not worth the $15mi price tag). McCoy is a 3 Tech who when he has lined up on the outside as a 5 Tech from time to time has not looked good.

The DE they got in the 4th round might be a player. There is a lot of good things being said about him which goes beyond what the Bucs say.

The name factor in this draft is not there. Other than White....who a lot of people didn't want for various reasons which went from logical to completely irrational...most people hadn't heard of any of these guys with maybe the exceptions of Edwards and Dean since they played in the SEC. Dean had been talked up a bit prior to the draft as well. So for that reason alone a lot of fans will dismiss it.

I would have liked a DL or OL with OL being the one which could cause some havoc. When I look at how the defense is structured by Bowles and the personnel he's used in the past I think the current crew of DL without McCoy can work. OL leaves RG in the hands of probably Cappa and RT with an injury prone Dotson which is risky. However the offense still was very productive last year so maybe getting the ball out of Winston's hands a bit quicker helps.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Gulf Shore Steve said:

I like White and think he could be a fantastic player in the NFL. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't like him other than position fit and Arians has some kind words for you if you do.

QB no. I don't see the point of bringing in a QB who isn't going to be the future of the team. If the current starter gets hurt or sucks, the draftee isn't going to help. RB I can see but RBs can be obtained all over the draft including after it. Had the Bucs drafted Bruce Anderson instead of the kicker in the 5th round, I'd have been happy with the pick. The point in QB is there were some decent young guys still available, but we somehow justify picking a kicker in the 5th. I can see your point of view on the RB, but unless Jameis fixes his issues and stays healthy, contingency at QB is going to be a problem.

I don't like drafting a kicker but this evaluation is not correct. The weakness in Santos game is leg strength. The drafted kicker has a very strong leg and is not mediocre over 50 yards. He is mediocre outside 50, GSS. The best of the best in the NFL are somewhere between 80-100% at 50+. This guy was a whopping 72% and he has had a serious knee injury prior to college. Let's see, that is right in line with all the other scrub kickers we've had on this team since Matt Bryant. It was a position of need that could have been filled by an UDFA, not by the 5th round pick in the draft. That was a shitty pick. He also is slow to the football and got blocked several times according to draft profiles from the "experts". Again, that was a shitty pick. Just because he has a "very strong leg" doesn't mean anything. Aguayo also was regarded as having a "strong leg".

The DBs I don't have a problem with. Any evaluation of the Bucs DBs from the last few years would be poor. This includes both coverage and tackling. There was some guy on PR I noticed who tried to claim that Ryan Smith was good or at least not horrible.  He's horrible.These are the same people questioning the DBs drafted me. Pardon me while I completely dismiss fan evaluation and go with the coaches. Whether these 3 guys turn this around I have no idea but the DC is a DB specialist so I'll go with his thoughts over mine. In addition, the defense uses more DBs with one as hybrid LBer/SS (Buchanon and probably Edwards in this defense) making the need to get more DBs in the room higher. I don't disagree at all with your take. I disagree with the players taken. This team needed upgrades at these positions. Hopefully they got them, but as I stated, I am not so sure about that.

Hump wasn't being replaced in this draft. In addition, Brate is one of Winstons security blankets and how many security blankets does the guy need. He should be able to operate with the Bucs receiving/TE corps as it is still amongst the best in the league without Hump. Meanwhile the 6th rounder can probably get on the field as a returner which is more than most 6th rounders. I have no idea why this pick would be criticized when put into perspective. Humphries being replaced didn't have to come in the draft. And Winston apparently needs a lot of security blankets. And Brate's contract is part of the reason we have no cap room. And excuse me while I chuckle at the need for a returner, when in a few years, that role will be obsoleted. That is why this pick is criticized. He's not going to amount to much with this team and I view it as a wasted pick.

McCoy wasn't tradeable. If he was he wouldn't still be on the roster. Not sure what is difficult to put those two pieces of information together. He's also the lesser flexible of JPP and McCoy within this defense. JPP can play Edge, DE, and 3 Tech and probably to a decent level (although still not worth the $15mi price tag). McCoy is a 3 Tech who when he has lined up on the outside as a 5 Tech from time to time has not looked good. Not believing McCoy is tradable is just your opinion. I'm not saying there were teams beating our door down for him. But there were probably teams willing to make some kind of deal with Tampa that could have/would have taken on his salary (my opinion). Even if you get a pick in next year's draft, or a late rounder in this past draft, at least you get something for him. Instead, they did what they do best and will end up cutting him for nothing.

The DE they got in the 4th round might be a player. There is a lot of good things being said about him which goes beyond what the Bucs say. The Iowa kid was a pretty good football player. Once the smoke clears on how the defense is going to be ran, I think the kid could be a nice rotational piece.

The name factor in this draft is not there. Other than White....who a lot of people didn't want for various reasons which went from logical to completely irrational...most people hadn't heard of any of these guys with maybe the exceptions of Edwards and Dean since they played in the SEC. Dean had been talked up a bit prior to the draft as well. So for that reason alone a lot of fans will dismiss it. I agree, but I am not "dismissing it". Again, I just felt there were better players available at position of needs than were taken. That is all I am grumpy about with this draft.

I would have liked a DL or OL with OL being the one which could cause some havoc. When I look at how the defense is structured by Bowles and the personnel he's used in the past I think the current crew of DL without McCoy can work. OL leaves RG in the hands of probably Cappa and RT with an injury prone Dotson which is risky. However the offense still was very productive last year so maybe getting the ball out of Winston's hands a bit quicker helps. Agreed.

 

Nice post, GSS. 

I don't disagree with your take on things. I just have a different opinion (in red).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

He is mediocre outside 50, GSS. The best of the best in the NFL are somewhere between 80-100% at 50+. This guy was a whopping 72% and he has had a serious knee injury prior to college. Let's see, that is right in line with all the other scrub kickers we've had on this team since Matt Bryant. It was a position of need that could have been filled by an UDFA, not by the 5th pick in the draft. That was a shitty pick. He also is slow to the football and got blocked several times according to draft profiles from the "experts". Again, that was a shitty pick. Just because he has a "very strong leg" doesn't mean anything. Aguayo also was regarded as having a "strong leg".

Not sure 8-11 is mediocre but whatever. Aguayo was not considered to have a strong leg. It was looked upon as his weakness. The draft thought was that he'd be automatic on the just introduced longer PAT and under 50yd FGs. Turns out he couldn't kick at all but that was the report. This would be similar to a scouting report on Santos. He'll make them from inside the 45 but beyond that, the Bucs have been hesitant to even try the kick. I'm not supporting choosing a kicker at all though.

Quote

The point in QB is there were some decent young guys still available, but we somehow justify picking a kicker in the 5th. I can see your point of view on the RB, but unless Jameis fixes his issues and stays healthy, contingency at QB is going to be a problem.

If Winston doesn't fix his issues or stay healthy, the guy on the bench is not going to help. The Bucs will be drafting their next franchise guy next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe this GMC disrespect was a big head fake to make people think we were going to draft his replacement, and now that the draft fell the way it did (with a big squishy thud IMO) we'll see one more year of GMC.   

Oh, Samurai -- according to overthecap.com,  unloading JPP would  count half his $15 large against the cap, and since he was the most productive player on defense, they won't be doing that, 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's interesting to go back and see who the Bucs could have picked to put together a better draft. Here's how it could have gone.

1              5              Josh Allen                            LB           Kentucky

2              7              Trayvon Mullen                 CB           Clemson

3              31           Oshane Ximines                DE           Old Dominion

3              36           Yodny Cajuste                   OT          West Virginia

4              5              Dru Samia                            OG         Oklahoma

5              7              Amani Oruwariye             CB           Penn State

6              36           Rodney Anderson            RB           Oklahoma

7              1              Terry Beckner                    DT           Missouri

I think that's a lot stronger draft than we ended up with. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tundra said:

Maybe this GMC disrespect was a big head fake to make people think we were going to draft his replacement, and now that the draft fell the way it did (with a big squishy thud IMO) we'll see one more year of GMC.   

Oh, Samurai -- according to overthecap.com,  unloading JPP would  count half his $15 large against the cap, and since he was the most productive player on defense, they won't be doing that, 

If JPP were to be traded they dump the entire cap hit. McCoy's release is the best one move they can make without involving anything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, tfree32 said:

It's interesting to go back and see who the Bucs could have picked to put together a better draft. Here's how it could have gone.

...

7              1              Terry Beckner                    DT           Missouri

I think that's a lot stronger draft than we ended up with. 

The "good" news is the Bucs selected Beckner with their #7...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Gulf Shore Steve said:

If JPP were to be traded they dump the entire cap hit. McCoy's release is the best one move they can make without involving anything else.

I understand. The easy move is GMC. Over the cap lists the Bucs as liable for half JPP even if traded which I don’t understand but whatever. Maybe that site has shit for data. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Tundra said:

I understand. The easy move is GMC. Over the cap lists the Bucs as liable for half JPP even if traded which I don’t understand but whatever. Maybe that site has shit for data. 

You have to use the drop down menu to click on trade either prior to or post June 1st. The dead money will switch to zero. This also follows the rules of the CBA which nowhere state that a player traded has any of his salary revert to the trading team's salary cap. If it was a bonus already paid that would be a different story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, fanofdabucs said:

JPP isn't going anywhere this year.

McCoy is not even mentioned by the coaching staff or GM when they talk about their DL this season.

I would be surprised if McCoy is on the roster come training camp.

I would be kind of shocked if McCoy is back. He seems like an awkward fit for the 3-4 defense, where I guess he would play defensive end. He was never dominant even in his prime, and he's fading now. He's a one-trick pony with a wicked first step off the snap, but players who rely on quickness/athleticism fade far more quickly than those with a more well-rounded skill set. It certainly seemed like McCoy was asked not to come to the recent minicamp. There have been stories everywhere that the Bucs have tried to trade him, with no takers. He makes $13 million a year, has no guaranteed money or cap hit if cut, and we need that money to sign our draft picks. And they don't even mention him any more when they talk about their plans. It's telling they even mentioned Noah Spence recently, but completely ignored McCoy.

HE GONE.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Samurai, I agree with having a contingency plan in place at QB. We all hope Winston has a big year and signs a longterm deal, but if they knew he was the guy for sure, he'd already have a longterm deal.

That being said, I'm not sure Licht can afford to use a high pick on someone who won't see the field this year. After Lock went in the 2nd round, I didn't think there was a QB (maybe Grier) worth taking. 

The Pats are best at drafting players that may not be immediate needs, but possible needs in the next year or two. They drafted Ryan Mallet, Grapollo, and now Stidham. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, tfree32 said:

I would be kind of shocked if McCoy is back. He seems like an awkward fit for the 3-4 defense, where I guess he would play defensive end. He was never dominant even in his prime, and he's fading now. He's a one-trick pony with a wicked first step off the snap, but players who rely on quickness/athleticism fade far more quickly than those with a more well-rounded skill set. It certainly seemed like McCoy was asked not to come to the recent minicamp. There have been stories everywhere that the Bucs have tried to trade him, with no takers. He makes $13 million a year, has no guaranteed money or cap hit if cut, and we need that money to sign our draft picks. And they don't even mention him any more when they talk about their plans. It's telling they even mentioned Noah Spence recently, but completely ignored McCoy.

HE GONE.  

McCoy is actually a really good fit in Bowles defense at 3 technique. But his age and production don't match his huge cap number.

If the Bucs had a ton of cap space then maybe he stays, but they don't and I bet he's gone 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bucs63 said:

What's the goat like?

Two balls, a schwantz and a heartbeat.

1 hour ago, SamuraiBuc said:

I had no idea you were that old!

Tndrcnt.

It’s a vintage film. The human star is actually 93 now, still active but only as an executive director. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×