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tfree32

Good Read on Winston

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You know how you feel about Patrick Mahomes, Drew Brees and Tom Brady.

You know how you feel about Case Keenum, Ryan Tannehill and Blake Bortles.

But you don’t know, four seasons into his professional career, what to make of Jameis Winston.

All you know is that you don’t know.

It’s not that Winston’s a bad quarterback. But we can’t say he’s a good quarterback, either.

What he is, especially if you’re a Tampa Bay Buccaneers fan, is the most frustrating quarterback in the NFL.

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Regardless, it will be Winston’s team this season. He has yet to prove, however, that it should be.

Who is Jameis Winston? We still don’t know.

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My impression is that Winston has pretty much everything else going for him as a QB, but he's consistently inaccurate.  I guess technically, he lacks precision and has accuracy.  His passes are going to the right area plus or minus too many feet.  He's good under pressure, smart, strong armed, and doesn't seem to go through good/bad streaks.  But, his passes are off.  Statistically, they are going to be spot on on occasion because he's throwing them around where they need to be.   He doesn't have train wreck games very often, but he's not dominating either.

He's still young though.  I tend to see him in the Eli Manning mold (at the high end).

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1 hour ago, Buc said:

would like to read it but I refuse to subscribe to that fish wrap      

Perhaps one of you gents could provide the more salient points made in the article??

 

It says that Winston is inconsistent, and we still don't know whether or not he will live up to his potential, but the way he finished last season (high DVOA or some fancy metric) , there is hope. 

Bassinger wrote it, and he is the one guy I have time to read at the fishwrap. 

My thing is this -- Winston knows his defense is going to give up 450+ yards and 35+ points. So he is trying to score on damn near every play, because he knows he has to if he wants to win. And he wants to win.  Give him a merely average defense, one that he trusts and believes in,  and it will be fun. 

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5 minutes ago, Gulf Shore Steve said:

4 years in and I don't expect many spots to change. It's simply a case of can the Bucs win with his play.

Except -- he has gone on stretches of very good, low turnover, high efficiency play, all with no defense and no running game. So he has shown well in stretches. I believe he has it in him to play well and consistently week in and week out, particularly with some real coaching. A real running game and real defense to give him confidence that it's not all just up to him, would help also. 

The counter to that is the Bengals game. :facepalm

Then Fitz comes in and leads an almost comeback, then Jameis comes in against the Giants and leads an almost comeback. Dork Knttr was a terrible leader (non-leader) to do that and had nothing to offer to Winston, like Arians apparently has. BA said Jameis looks off safeties too long and throws too many passes with his feet crossed up. Where was the coaching on this issue when Knttr was coich?  It wasn't. 

So we'll see. Let's go.  Welcome to year eleven of the five year plan.  

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1 hour ago, Tundra said:

It says that Winston is inconsistent, and we still don't know whether or not he will live up to his potential, but the way he finished last season (high DVOA or some fancy metric) , there is hope. 

Bassinger wrote it, and he is the one guy I have time to read at the fishwrap. 

My thing is this -- Winston knows his defense is going to give up 450+ yards and 35+ points. So he is trying to score on damn near every play, because he knows he has to if he wants to win. And he wants to win.  Give him a merely average defense, one that he trusts and believes in,  and it will be fun. 

Maybe throwing a half decent running game to slow down the clock and take pressure off the QB and Defense.  Just a thought

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How bout a better running game that will be used when there's a better defense so the offense is not playing catch up allowing Winston's shortcomings to be less noticeable?

So we can shut the fuck up about the knuckleheaded number one overall pick and bitch about kickers, punters, asshole refs, and Arians facial hair. 

BUCCANEERS 2019

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He had decent OL play and 4 great WRs as targets.  With those weapons, a franchise QB is going to have games where he simply takes over.  Have we ever seen that with Winston?  He's not having a Testeverde meltdown resulting in horrible decision making.  His stats under pressure support that.  His passes tend to be thrown where they should be, but they are off their mark.  I think we can win with him and he'll be a decent/good QB, but in 4 years, I haven't seen anything indicating greatness.

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14 hours ago, Axe said:

He certainly has not shown himself to be worthy of the #1 overall pick..

Annnnd there it is. 

While some fuctards get their panties all in a wad when fans criticize the play of Winston, we all just want him to be a franchise QB and win games. Sure the defense and coaching should take plenty of blame, but at some point you have to realize Winston was drafted number overall and needs to be better. 

He has one of the best groups of targets in the entire NFL (Evans, Godwin, OJ, Brate). And there has to be a point where if he needs great targets, a good online, a good running game, a good defense...at that point, can’t you win games with someone who wasn’t the top overall pick?

IMO the defense sucking and causing him to force things, would only hold water if most of Winston’s turnovers came late in games where he was forcing the ball. But go look at some games (Bengals, Falcons in Atl) where he threw terrible picks early in games when he wasn’t forcing the ball because he wasn’t trying to play catch up.

This year he should have a defense that can at least hold teams to the point where he isn’t playing catch up and much better coaching. Hopefully he turns the corner and becomes the QB we all want him to be.

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21 hours ago, Boatrunner said:

Maybe throwing a half decent running game to slow down the clock and take pressure off the QB and Defense.  Just a thought

The issue with the running game was that the team had to abandon it almost every game because either the defense was giving up points and/or the QB was turning the ball over and giving up scores and field position. 

Barber and running game, in almost all the games last year, looked like they were in for a big game. Then due to turnovers and a shitty defense the running game became  an after thought. 

A better defense, elimination of costly turnovers and more creative scheme and the running game will be plenty effective. 

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2 hours ago, fanofdabucs said:

Annnnd there it is. 

While some fuctards get their panties all in a wad when fans criticize the play of Winston, we all just want him to be a franchise QB and win games. Sure the defense and coaching should take plenty of blame, but at some point you have to realize Winston was drafted number overall and needs to be better. 

He has one of the best groups of targets in the entire NFL (Evans, Godwin, OJ, Brate). And there has to be a point where if he needs great targets, a good online, a good running game, a good defense...at that point, can’t you win games with someone who wasn’t the top overall pick?

IMO the defense sucking and causing him to force things, would only hold water if most of Winston’s turnovers came late in games where he was forcing the ball. But go look at some games (Bengals, Falcons in Atl) where he threw terrible picks early in games when he wasn’t forcing the ball because he wasn’t trying to play catch up.

This year he should have a defense that can at least hold teams to the point where he isn’t playing catch up and much better coaching. Hopefully he turns the corner and becomes the QB we all want him to be.

fanof -- first of all Aaron Rodgers wouldn't have many more wins at this stage than Winston with that defense.  The fact that Winston knows how shitfest his defense is means he knows they'll totally choke , so he has the mindset that he has to score on every play and ring up a 50 burger to have a chance.  

Wanting  a quarterback to win games is fine for some. I'd like the team to win, personally.  It's a team game. 

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Arians nailed it. You throw the ball 40+ times a game and give up 35+ points a game, you're going to throw interceptions. Koetter screwed the pooch with how he handled the QB situation in 2017 and then he somehow managed to fuck it up worse in 2018. I'm too lazy to do the research but how many teams have gone three consecutive seasons without a 1,000 yard rusher? I wonder if an incompetent coaching staff, a historically bad defense (multiple times), and no semblance of a running game can have a negative impact on QB? 

Ignore all of that backdrop and go suckle on Ryan Fitzpatrick and Desean Jackson.

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On 3/23/2019 at 11:32 AM, Tundra said:

fanof -- first of all Aaron Rodgers wouldn't have many more wins at this stage than Winston with that defense.  The fact that Winston knows how shitfest his defense is means he knows they'll totally choke , so he has the mindset that he has to score on every play and ring up a 50 burger to have a chance.  

Wanting  a quarterback to win games is fine for some. I'd like the team to win, personally.  It's a team game. 

If he didn’t do the same thing in college, then maybe there would be more validity to that thought.

Winston had superior college coaching, a great team around him, yet he still would turn the ball..I don’t think that changes, but let’s just hope they can be limited. 

Limited turnovers, a defense that is much less shitty, and a better managed game by the coaches, and maybe they can start winning some games. 

Go Winston Go Buc 2019!

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3 hours ago, Tundra said:

Brett Favre sucked.

Winston doesn’t suck. He’s good..a lot of us were/are still hoping for great out of the number one pick. 

We know he has moments of brilliance in him and he has moments like the Bengals game..most fans just want to see consistently goood Winston.

I don’t get why some get so defensive when people are critical of the guy. 

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Hell, I can understand some of the turnovers, but with those targets when he wasn't turning it over, he should have fucking owned nearly every defense he came across.  Fitz came out of the gate looking incredible before his meltdown and most of that had to do with his targets.  Then Winston takes over and we see none of it.  I'm not a hater.  He doesn't suck, but has he had a single game where his passes were so sharp that he couldn't be stopped...with THOSE targets?

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Fitzpatrick had two games. That's back dropped by being on nearly 10 teams over a 5-6 year stretch. Not sure why people keep pointing to an outlier. First half against Pittsburgh. Chicago. Carolina. We saw what Fitzpatrick did when defenses had a more complete book on him as the Bucs' starting QB. He sucked.

Arians has hinted at it. Koetter didn't do anyone any favors with how he handled the QB situation. Yeah, Winston helped create the situation with the off-field stuff. But the coach compounded it and the season turned into a total cluster. 

As for those TARGETS, the NFL isn't Madden. I don't care how good the WR's are. When you throw the ball 40+ times, and usually fall behind by double digits early in a game, defenses are going to tee off on the offense. It's not rocket science and it's why most playoff teams are strong on the o-line, running game, and defense. It's called being well-rounded. The Bucs aren't. They haven't been. Probably never will be. Shit, Aaron Rodgers didn't sniff the playoffs last year because of how shitty the Packers' defense and play calling were. Phillip Rivers suffered the same fate for years. Both of those guys are in the HOF.

Easier to blame the QB and ignore the myriad of problems that have been plaguing this franchise since 2009.

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32 minutes ago, Dunn_Deal28 said:

 When you throw the ball 40+ times, and usually fall behind by double digits early in a game, defenses are going to tee off on the offense. It's not rocket science 

So the QB gets pass because if this, yet the LT, who’s job it is to block the best pass rushers in the NFL “fucking sucks” when put in this exact scenario week in and week out. 

Fucking Brilliant 

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39 minutes ago, fanofdabucs said:

So the QB gets pass because if this, yet the LT, who’s job it is to block the best pass rushers in the NFL “fucking sucks” when put in this exact scenario week in and week out. 

Fucking Brilliant 

Every LT's job is to block the best pass rushers.  Dong Smith happens to block them less well than many. But he's who we're stuck with, and I am rubbing my hands together to watch BA crawl upside his loafing ass to motivate him to play to his potential.  

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On 3/26/2019 at 6:56 AM, Dunn_Deal28 said:

Statistically, one of the best QB's ever through his first four seasons, and this stupid ass fan base wants to explain away Dirk Koetter, Mike Smith, and the Peyton Barber / Jacquizz Rodgers duo at running back so that they can point the finger at Winston.

How many of those stats were piled up in garbage time though? If you want to blame Winston's turnovers on frequently playing from behind and having to throw a ton, there's some truth there. But throwing a ton is also why he piles up so much yardage. So the context of the stats is more important than the simple numbers.

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