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tfree32

Daniel Jones (QB) Duke

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I’m increasingly sold on this kid as an option for the Bucs at QB. He’s big, strong, smart, has an NFL arm, and has been coached by Cutcliffe, who also coached the Mannings. He’s likely to be a first round pick. So he could be a good trade down candidate for us. With Winston likely to be headed into his option year, we need to have a backup plan ready to go. If Winston flames out and is gone, Jones would have a year in the system and hopefully be ready to go. And regardless it would be good to have some competition.

But Jones looks to be a good one and is worth a solid look.

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Right now (and it's way early), if I were in control and making the picks, it would be Greg Little (OT), Jonah Williams (OT), or Greedy Williams (CB). I like Little's size and he is fairly athletic to be a gargantuan. I like Jonah Williams power and ability to move the line into the second level. I love Greedy Williams size and ball skills.

Way early, but I would be happy with any of those 3 at this moment in time.

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3 hours ago, Gulf Shore Steve said:

If the Bucs are going with Winston, they can't afford to use a high pick on a QB. Pick the best OL/DB/DL available

This is the right answer.  It doesn’t make any sense to burn the pick on a QB until you know you need one, and if you already know you need one there’s no point in bringing Jameis back next season. 

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9 hours ago, Gulf Shore Steve said:

If the Bucs are going with Winston, they can't afford to use a high pick on a QB. Pick the best OL/DB/DL available

That would be sound logic if the Bucs were close to contending and a player or three away. They’re clearly not. There is no doubt that QB is the most important position on the field. There are two types of teams...those that have the QB spot figured out and those that don’t. We clearly don’t. That has to be the highest priority.

 

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1 hour ago, Dunn_Deal28 said:

lol. God bless the most informed. Make people laugh if nothing else.

You’ve made clear you’re all-in on Winston. I think that’s crazy given his on-field and off-field issues. In my view, rhe “most informed” should realize that Jameis is more “Famous” for eating W’s, committing turnovers, making stupid mistakes, and raping/assaulting women than for winning games, leading the team to the playoffs, etc. He’s a punchline who players from other teams are openly mocking. 

Even you have to concede it’s an open question whether he’s the guy. So long as that’s the case, we should be aggressively looking for someone who is. I like Jones and am also intrigued by Tyree Jackson from Buffalo as a mid-round developmental candidate.

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3 minutes ago, tfree32 said:

You’ve made clear you’re all-in on Winston. I think that’s crazy given his on-field and off-field issues. In my view, rhe “most informed” should realize that Jameis is more “Famous” for eating W’s, committing turnovers, making stupid mistakes, and raping/assaulting women than for winning games, leading the team to the playoffs, etc. He’s a punchline who players from other teams are openly mocking. 

Even you have to concede it’s an open question whether he’s the guy. So long as that’s the case, we should be aggressively looking for someone who is. I like Jones and am also intrigued by Tyree Jackson from Buffalo as a mid-round developmental candidate.

A mid rounder I can see particularly since the team may need a backup QB anyway. Jones has a decent skillset but I also think he's a guy who there seems to be in the draft every year. If the team is committed to Winston, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to draft a QB high with some other clear holes to fill in what appears to be a bad QB year....while a big year at other positions such as the DL.

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On 12/30/2018 at 10:48 AM, tfree32 said:

You’ve made clear you’re all-in on Winston. I think that’s crazy given his on-field and off-field issues. In my view, rhe “most informed” should realize that Jameis is more “Famous” for eating W’s, committing turnovers, making stupid mistakes, and raping/assaulting women than for winning games, leading the team to the playoffs, etc. He’s a punchline who players from other teams are openly mocking. 

Even you have to concede it’s an open question whether he’s the guy. So long as that’s the case, we should be aggressively looking for someone who is. I like Jones and am also intrigued by Tyree Jackson from Buffalo as a mid-round developmental candidate.

There are gigantic IF's with Jameis, admittedly. First is whether or not he stays out of trouble. He's one more mishap away from being suspended for possibly an entire season and that would essentially end his career. If he cares about the game as much as he claims to and if he's committed to his family, then I will presume that he'll walk a cleaner path. He certainly wouldn't be the first player to run into trouble in college / early pro career and then become someone that stays out of the negative spotlight.

The second issue is the turnovers. 50% of it is on him. The remaining balance is a turn style offensive line and a running game that existed once in his four years as a starter. Everyone wants to point to the skilled positions and think that's reason enough for Winston to turn into Tom Brady. When your line sucks and you can't run the ball, you're going to throw interceptions. Way of life in the NFL.

Draft capital is a precious commodity. The Bucs have a QB that's capable of going for 4,000 yards and 25+ touchdowns. That's capable of winning a lot of games provided that you build the rest of the roster in the right way. That means drafting wisely rather than dart boarding developmental QB's because they have a .01% chance of being better than Winston. If 2019 isn't his year, Winston and Licht are gone and the Bucs are looking for a QB in the first round. As it should be. But until then, focus on the myriad of other problems this team has - all of which are much bigger problems than Jameis.

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You don't draft a first round QB if your staying with your QB which has been made clear. Your first rounder is used now to help the team not in the future. And please for god sake stop talking about how Winston is the reason we lost games. If you go back and look at his career Winston has put us in more positions to win games then lose. Why don't you throw how many kicks were missed, the defense blowing the lead or not stopping any one or penalties committed by the offensive line after a lot of big plays. You can hate the guy for making idiotic decisions in his life but his turnovers is because he tries to make to much happen to win.  I get just as pissed as anyone when he does that but as I said in another post yesterday if you have not got to watch the Chargers and Rivers like I have his whole career you would know he makes the same exact throws I have seen Winston do. The reason Rivers is considered great is because they still win because he has a team around him that can cover up for those mistakes. When he doesn't the same exact conversation is being said about Rivers.

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18 hours ago, bucs63 said:

Winston is not the reason we lost games but he's kinda like McCoy. We want those high 1st round picks which we suffered for to be the reason we win games.

We haven't had a player to rally around like that since ...uh, since gas was 99 cents per gallon? Yeah, 99.

And yet, we rarely hear the most informed talk make excuses for Jameis like they did for McCoy. I guess that's the difference between being a Seminole versus a Sooner.

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1 hour ago, Dunn_Deal28 said:

Hope so, buddy. Bucs are long over due for a banner year.

Meanwhile, the Glazers contacted me and asked you and I to do the next Bucs QB search if Winston is found molesting male baby goats or something. 

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On 1/3/2019 at 9:24 AM, Dunn_Deal28 said:

There are gigantic IF's with Jameis, admittedly. First is whether or not he stays out of trouble. He's one more mishap away from being suspended for possibly an entire season and that would essentially end his career. If he cares about the game as much as he claims to and if he's committed to his family, then I will presume that he'll walk a cleaner path. He certainly wouldn't be the first player to run into trouble in college / early pro career and then become someone that stays out of the negative spotlight.

The second issue is the turnovers. 50% of it is on him. The remaining balance is a turn style offensive line and a running game that existed once in his four years as a starter. Everyone wants to point to the skilled positions and think that's reason enough for Winston to turn into Tom Brady. When your line sucks and you can't run the ball, you're going to throw interceptions. Way of life in the NFL.

Draft capital is a precious commodity. The Bucs have a QB that's capable of going for 4,000 yards and 25+ touchdowns. That's capable of winning a lot of games provided that you build the rest of the roster in the right way. That means drafting wisely rather than dart boarding developmental QB's because they have a .01% chance of being better than Winston. If 2019 isn't his year, Winston and Licht are gone and the Bucs are looking for a QB in the first round. As it should be. But until then, focus on the myriad of other problems this team has - all of which are much bigger problems than Jameis.

How many incidents has Jameis had? How many times have his apologists tried to explain how THIS TIME he’s undoubtedly learned his lesson and will straighten up and fly right? At each stage, there have undoubtedly been those who thought that now that he was in college, an upperclassman, a team leader at FSU, in his 20’s, a well paid professional, etc. he would grow up and quit doing stupid and criminal shit. After each incident, suspension, and fallout, they assumed that THIS TIME he would finally get it, grow up, and justify the faith the Buccaneers put in him. At some point those people became equivalent of Charlie Brown with the football. 

Jameis isn’t a silly and immature kid who’s making silly and immature kid mistakes. He’s a grown man who seems to have a problem raping and sexually assaulting women. He’s a thief, a guy who has no respect for other people’s property, and just generally a bad guy with shitty character. That’s not something that often changes. 

If Winston was a better QB, wouldn’t that help the line and run game? I think that goes both directions. If Winston was completing 70% of his passes, using all of his weapons, and ripping it up, the job of the offensive line would get easier and there would be a lot more and better running lanes. 

I’m strongly of the opinion that teams should be regularly evaluating and drafting QBs, even if they have an established starter. It’s the most important position on the field and teams need options. Each team is one injury away from a lost season if they don’t have a good backup. Look at the difference between the Eagles and the 49ers this year. Each lost their starter. The Eagles have a shot at the Super Bowl. The 49ers have been playing all season for development and a draft pick.

Plus QBs can have insane trade value. A mid-round pick who is developed well and showcased a bit can bring in valuable draft picks. So if I was a GM, I’d be looking to draft a QB every 3-4 years. It’s a hell of a good investment, both for security if the starter goes down and as an investment for the future. 

And I view the risk/reward for Jameis very differently than you do. In addition to his boneheaded mistakes and inconsistent play, his off-field crimes make it tough for the Bucs to rely on him. How much did it hurt the Bucs to have Winston miss multiple games? How much did that damage his credibility and ability to lead the locker room? How much did it make his teammates question his judgment and whether they can count on him? How can the Bucs possibly go into the season without a solid backup plan should Jameis’ on-field and/or off-field failings make him miss games or simply meltdown? 

The cap system also favors teams that have a rookie QB on that first contract. Teams that hit on a young guy can use that time while they’re on the rookie deal to stack the roster with the money other teams have to pay older franchise QBs. So the money a team like the Vikings is paying Cousins can be spent by a team like the Rams to absolutely stock their roster with talent. 

So Licht (I can’t believe he’s still employed) should be looking for smart talented QBs who are good system fits and can be developed into possible starters. If they can be found for good value in the draft, we should grab one every couple of years and stash him. 

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3 hours ago, tfree32 said:

How many incidents has Jameis had? How many times have his apologists tried to explain how THIS TIME he’s undoubtedly learned his lesson and will straighten up and fly right? At each stage, there have undoubtedly been those who thought that now that he was in college, an upperclassman, a team leader at FSU, in his 20’s, a well paid professional, etc. he would grow up and quit doing stupid and criminal shit. After each incident, suspension, and fallout, they assumed that THIS TIME he would finally get it, grow up, and justify the faith the Buccaneers put in him. At some point those people became equivalent of Charlie Brown with the football. 

Jameis isn’t a silly and immature kid who’s making silly and immature kid mistakes. He’s a grown man who seems to have a problem raping and sexually assaulting women. He’s a thief, a guy who has no respect for other people’s property, and just generally a bad guy with shitty character. That’s not something that often changes. 

If Winston was a better QB, wouldn’t that help the line and run game? I think that goes both directions. If Winston was completing 70% of his passes, using all of his weapons, and ripping it up, the job of the offensive line would get easier and there would be a lot more and better running lanes. 

I’m strongly of the opinion that teams should be regularly evaluating and drafting QBs, even if they have an established starter. It’s the most important position on the field and teams need options. Each team is one injury away from a lost season if they don’t have a good backup. Look at the difference between the Eagles and the 49ers this year. Each lost their starter. The Eagles have a shot at the Super Bowl. The 49ers have been playing all season for development and a draft pick.

Plus QBs can have insane trade value. A mid-round pick who is developed well and showcased a bit can bring in valuable draft picks. So if I was a GM, I’d be looking to draft a QB every 3-4 years. It’s a hell of a good investment, both for security if the starter goes down and as an investment for the future. 

And I view the risk/reward for Jameis very differently than you do. In addition to his boneheaded mistakes and inconsistent play, his off-field crimes make it tough for the Bucs to rely on him. How much did it hurt the Bucs to have Winston miss multiple games? How much did that damage his credibility and ability to lead the locker room? How much did it make his teammates question his judgment and whether they can count on him? How can the Bucs possibly go into the season without a solid backup plan should Jameis’ on-field and/or off-field failings make him miss games or simply meltdown? 

The cap system also favors teams that have a rookie QB on that first contract. Teams that hit on a young guy can use that time while they’re on the rookie deal to stack the roster with the money other teams have to pay older franchise QBs. So the money a team like the Vikings is paying Cousins can be spent by a team like the Rams to absolutely stock their roster with talent. 

So Licht (I can’t believe he’s still employed) should be looking for smart talented QBs who are good system fits and can be developed into possible starters. If they can be found for good value in the draft, we should grab one every couple of years and stash him. 

I really tried reading …..I've come to realize you Hate Winston.....Nothing else matters.....

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