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tfree32

What To Do With Winston?

What to do with Winston?  

27 members have voted

  1. 1. Sign him, trade him, other?

    • He’s the future of the franchise. Sign him to a big money long-term deal.
    • It’s too soon to dump him. Keep him around for next year. See how he does and then decide on the long-term deal.
    • He’s done here. Get what we can for him in trade and move on this offseason.


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For me, the rape accusations are just icing on the shit cake.

When we drafted Winston, I thought he was a better pick than Mariota, because I thought he was probably in a system that better prepared him for the NFL and I thought he had a better frame for the job in terms of both height and durability.

I was excited at the premise of a QB that could potentially light up the scoreboard regularly, putting us in a position to win at any time, even if we were a couple of scores behind in the fourth quarter.  That's what a high tier QB does - they keep every game within reach because they are generally always dangerous.

But Winston's calling card has not been late game heroics or dynamic, overwhelming play.  It's been inconsistency and poor ball security.  Over the course of the 11 games he played this season, he threw one less interception than he did his rookie year, and he started five more games as a rookie.  That's not trending the right direction.  

He's never evidenced a consistent ability to score when the team really needs it.  He's never evidenced an ability to eliminate or reduce his penchant for giving the ball away.  I'm aware that some interceptions are not the sole responsibility of the QB, but when you've created a reputation of being a turnover machine, you have to start displaying a trend the other way.  

Ultimately, what Licht said means that Winston's a Buc next year no matter what.  Hopefully the next regime can get him to minimize those problems.  If not, he's Freeman 2.0.  One winning season without a playoff appearance, and then nothing but obscurity and untapped potential to follow.

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JustaFan I am going to disagree a little bit with your post all of his personal issues aside. I do believe he has the ability to score when the team really needs it and if you review a lot of games he has put us in great positions to win but miss field goal or poor defense has lost those games and you can include penalties in that area to. That's not saying he does not make idiotic mistakes but his last couple of games after being benched were not his fault. I am not sure if you get to watch a lot of Chargers games like I do from being out here but Rivers who is a Hall of Fame QB makes a lot of mistakes the same as Winston he just throws the ball up hoping something will happen. The difference in the two (not including personal issues) is Rivers has been able to cover up is mistakes because he has teams help him out. I am not saying Winston will be a elite QB like Rivers in considered but if you can some of the mistakes Winston has if you have team around that can help cover some faults. 

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3 minutes ago, BFFL said:

JustaFan I am going to disagree a little bit with your post all of his personal issues aside. I do believe he has the ability to score when the team really needs it and if you review a lot of games he has put us in great positions to win but miss field goal or poor defense has lost those games and you can include penalties in that area to. That's not saying he does not make idiotic mistakes but his last couple of games after being benched were not his fault. I am not sure if you get to watch a lot of Chargers games like I do from being out here but Rivers who is a Hall of Fame QB makes a lot of mistakes the same as Winston he just throws the ball up hoping something will happen. The difference in the two (not including personal issues) is Rivers has been able to cover up is mistakes because he has teams help him out. I am not saying Winston will be a elite QB like Rivers in considered but if you can some of the mistakes Winston has if you have team around that can help cover some faults. 

I get you, BFFL, but I never said he doesn't have the ability to score.  

I said he's never evidenced a CONSISTENT ability to score when it's needed.  There are games when he'll make absolutely beautiful throws, and then there are still far too many games when he'll do terrible shit on the field.  If we were seeing a lot less of the latter and a lot more of the former I'd be solidly in the Winston fan-boy camp, accusations notwithstanding.

As it is, it's like the one girl Seinfeld dated that was beautiful in the right light and hideous if you caught her in the wrong light.  No matter how pretty the pretty is, the ugly is what you remember - particularly if you see it a lot.

Winston's been ugly far too often at this point in his career to get us to maintain focus on when's he's been beautiful.

 

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I think I see Winston as more consistent than others.  He doesn't have many games where he singlehandedly loses it for us, but he doesn't have many where he really took over and won it for us.  Some point out that his latest off field issue was close to 2 years ago, but the impact hit us pretty hard this season.

He has a lot of weapons on offense, and his QBR is at about the bottom 1/3rd of NFL starters.  I think his high end is in the Eli Manning camp.

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1 hour ago, Bucaroo Bonzai said:

I think I see Winston as more consistent than others.  He doesn't have many games where he singlehandedly loses it for us, but he doesn't have many where he really took over and won it for us.  Some point out that his latest off field issue was close to 2 years ago, but the impact hit us pretty hard this season.

 

This entire debate is tiresome but the comment that he doesn't lead the team back (or words to that affect) I'm not sure about. Hasn't he had a number of games (more last year) when the offense would give the team the lead late only to have the defense give it up? Obviously Sunday was an extreme example but there have been others over the past couple of years. Maybe I'm misremembering.

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26 minutes ago, Gulf Shore Steve said:

This entire debate is tiresome but the comment that he doesn't lead the team back (or words to that affect) I'm not sure about. Hasn't he had a number of games (more last year) when the offense would give the team the lead late only to have the defense give it up? Obviously Sunday was an extreme example but there have been others over the past couple of years. Maybe I'm misremembering.

No you aren't misremembering at all.

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29 minutes ago, Gulf Shore Steve said:

This entire debate is tiresome but the comment that he doesn't lead the team back (or words to that affect) I'm not sure about. Hasn't he had a number of games (more last year) when the offense would give the team the lead late only to have the defense give it up? Obviously Sunday was an extreme example but there have been others over the past couple of years. Maybe I'm misremembering.

You are exactly right. He does an exceptional job of trying to lead the team back when they fall behind. Unfortunately, he has been saddled with a team that has had scrubs as coaches, particularly on the defensive side of the football. Couple that with players getting hurt and poor personnel decisions, it's a wonder he has even been in position to try and lead the team back as many times as he has.

He's had character issues in his past, but let's be honest, he hasn't had anything on the record for more than 2 years. Can he fuck up? Sure - but we all can. It's time to put this endless crap behind us. If you are a Bucs fan, cheer for the damned team and accept Winston as your QB for now. If you can't do that, hit the door. He's the QB and will be the QB for at least another season.

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1 hour ago, Gulf Shore Steve said:

This entire debate is tiresome but the comment that he doesn't lead the team back (or words to that affect) I'm not sure about. Hasn't he had a number of games (more last year) when the offense would give the team the lead late only to have the defense give it up? Obviously Sunday was an extreme example but there have been others over the past couple of years. Maybe I'm misremembering.

I'm not really thinking come from behind wins, but rather him dominating in a game, but even when our defense chokes, he is usually given another chance to score.    Most of our past  (Bucs) 'franchise quarterbacks' showed signs of greatness in a few games, but then they had those horrid games that were hard to forget.  Winston just seems to hang out in the middle more.

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On 12/16/2018 at 4:03 PM, Seminoleboy said:

Mr. GM, you gave us this offensive line?  I must say............pack your fricking bags and GTF out of dodge.

If your choice of college to support wasn't so egregious I'd tend to agree with ya ;)

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On 1/1/2019 at 6:57 PM, tfree32 said:

As Bonzai pointed out, there are a lot of probable reasons that the evidence of his misconduct has been made to disappear. Boosters with money are willing to spend some to keep him eligible. Local authorities and law enforcement are willing to look the other way to keep him playing. Sexual assault is generally a situation with only two people who know what happened, making it difficult to prove. If alcohol or drugs are involved and memories are foggy, it’s even tougher. And in Winston’s case, he’s had scumbag friends willing to lie for him, which complicates things.

In the Klinsmann case, neither the Tallahassee police nor the Florida Attorney General’s office could manage to locate the cab driver. Yet Klinsmann’s legal team was able to. That’s completely inexplicable to me. It strongly indicates that law enforcement agencies weren’t trying very hard to find him and likely didn’t want to. Hard to prosecute a case you’ve decided you don’t want to. 

The burden of proof necessary to charge someone with sexual assault is very high. Prosecutors have to believe they can prove their charges beyond a reasonable doubt. If it happened in Tallahassee, that means convincing 12 people, many likely FSU homers, that their star QB is a rapist. The simple truth is that may be impossible in a college town.

The burden of proof necessary to decide someone is a certain scumbag and probable rapist is far far lower. Winston’s history of sexual misconduct and general douchebaggery certainly qualifies.

Yep, as I acknowledged, it could be that he's a literal rapist, but it could be a lot of things too, and that's a shame.

But it's a conspiracy to say that they're all covering for him and I'm not willing to go that far.  

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Is it a conspiracy when there are articles documenting how FSU and local police have protected athletes?  Also, his FSU witness, lied over the Uber incident.

https://deadspin.com/times-fsu-and-tallahassee-police-have-protected-semino-1645228595

I'm not stating for a fact that he did it, but the lack of prosecutable evidence doesn't show much when the school and local law enforcement (with strong financial ties to the school) are sweeping things under the rug.

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On 1/2/2019 at 7:59 PM, Gulf Shore Steve said:

This entire debate is tiresome but the comment that he doesn't lead the team back (or words to that affect) I'm not sure about. Hasn't he had a number of games (more last year) when the offense would give the team the lead late only to have the defense give it up? Obviously Sunday was an extreme example but there have been others over the past couple of years. Maybe I'm misremembering.

One of my more favorite memories of the most informed took place after the Buffalo game in 2017. Where Winston gave the Bucs a late lead only to watch the defense let Tyrod Taylor turn into Dan Marino and shred them with a deep sideline pass. Ensuing possession, Hump fumbled on a screen pass and that was it. About 90% of the talk after the game centered on Winston and how he lost the game with an unproductive first half.

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Winston is our QB. It's settled. Arians can help him -- Arians is something Knttr could never be -- a leader and Chief Psychological Officer, which the team desperately needs. That's the edge in today's Not Football League. The talent is so close and the rules and referees have made almost every game a coin flip. It's the only way to get continuity in the win column over seasons. 

Buy me some more llama porn, assfaces. 

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11 hours ago, tb_buc said:

Huh...same number of picks that Peyton Manning had with Winston having 300 or so more attempts. More TD’s than anyone except Marino. Pick 6’s? Mariota has more than Winston, remember Winston’s first NFL pass?

http://saintpetersburgtimes.fl.newsmemory.com/?publink=237626f2d

Yeah, before this season, I was making some of those claims, BUT we're in a new era when it comes to the passing game.  They've opened things up by protecting QBs and RBs.  You might as well compare the QB stats of the 80's 90s to the QBs of the 60-70s.    He was on a decent trajectory, but didn't progress this season, and his faults appear to be his faults.

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9 minutes ago, Gulf Shore Steve said:

It's getting expensive to do so. Freakin' actors want to be paid like legit thespians even though all they have to do is turn around and show their ass to those of us who "appreciate" it.

They've just increased the salary cap considerably so it's OK. 

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Winston has a penchant for throwing interceptions. Phillip Rivers does. Eli Manning does. Brett Favre did. Despite the most informed's ramblings, it is a flaw that can be corrected or at least mitigated. When this team gets a competent offensive line and running game, watch how much better Winston looks. Then again, knowing this cluster of a franchise, Winston will look better with another team in 2020.

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2 hours ago, Dunn_Deal28 said:

Winston has a penchant for throwing interceptions. Phillip Rivers does. Eli Manning does. Brett Favre did. Despite the most informed's ramblings, it is a flaw that can be corrected or at least mitigated. When this team gets a competent offensive line and running game, watch how much better Winston looks. Then again, knowing this cluster of a franchise, Winston will look better with another team in 2020.

Watch what happens when Arians gets his ample mitts on Jameis.  That is unless Lichzxt and the GlazedEars totally fuck it up and have convinced Arians to wall himself up in his home with a case of booze and a few terabytes of Debbie Swallows Dumbo videos. 

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On 1/6/2019 at 10:10 PM, Bucaroo Bonzai said:

Yeah, before this season, I was making some of those claims, BUT we're in a new era when it comes to the passing game.  They've opened things up by protecting QBs and RBs.  You might as well compare the QB stats of the 80's 90s to the QBs of the 60-70s.    He was on a decent trajectory, but didn't progress this season, and his faults appear to be his faults.

Yeah, I’m not buying that, the stats have QB’s from different eras. How many Colt fans were pining for Manning’s head? Sure, right, I am saying Winston is the next Manning, or is it Glennon? I’m a 42 year Buc fan, I’m tired of the carousel that emotional fans and media seem to scream for. Winston has shown the tools and desire necessary to win in the league, instead of putting the success on the offense on one player (see McCoy on defense), how about we draft better, coach better and actually have what this sport actually is, a team that plays as a unit.

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2 hours ago, tb_buc said:

................Winston has shown the tools and desire necessary to win in the league, instead of putting the success on the offense on one player (see McCoy on defense), how about we draft better, coach better and actually have what this sport actually is, a team that plays as a unit.

Image result for stadium standing ovation gif

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