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Winston = Enigma For Bucs?

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It was a good read. Agree with the whole thing, except “Bucs having no possession receiver” - Evans plays that role well when he needs to on critical down-distance, and especially against zone coverage .  Then there’s the Humpster and Brate who also play that role really well. 

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46 minutes ago, Bucaroo Bonzai said:

Can't fully judge a QB without good OL play or a running game.    He's a competent starter.  He's very young, and his stats have improved each year, so we need to focus our energies on other positions.

We could always trade him for Nick Foles. 

:wtf

 

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He is every bit the player the Bucs knew they were drafting. There has been zero shockers with Winston, as far as I am concerned. He turned the ball over in college. He acts immature at times. He is unbeatable some games, and other he looks like he just started playing the game.......ALL of those things were in his scouting report. The disturbing thing to me, and to the article's point as I see it, is he hasn't corrected any of those things. He is still young and I want to have faith that Koetter and Bajakian know what they are doing in terms of helping him develop.

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And yet his stats keep improving every year.  His numbers improved this year even though he played 3 games injured, his OL kind of sucked, and he had no running game to speak of.  He left college 1-2 years early, so he's still really young and his progress is similar to many pocket QBs who ended up being great.    Yeah, he might not be elite, but he's good, and we've got actual problems to worry about elsewhere.

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The running game was lackluster, but is the offensive line really THAT bad? Koetter doesn’t seem to think so. Winston also has a ton of weapons in the passing game and the stability of working with the same coach for his entire career. So I’m not sure excusing issues with his play by acting like he plays on a team or offense devoid of talent is valid.

He’s a talented young QB in a league with far too few of them. So the smart move is to pick up the 5th year option and hope to have a better idea about his ability to mature, continue to develop, eliminate turnovers, etc. by the time we have to decide whether to sign him to a long team deal. But in a league where teams are lining up Brinks trucks to sign a talented kid with only a handful of starts like Garropollo and a mediocre and aging guy on the downside of his career like Smith, the reality is that Winston is probably here for the duration. We spent a #1 overall pick on him and will have five years invested in him before it comes time for a long-term deal. Unless he’s in prison or ineligible to play, the Glazers are going to have to pay him. 

 

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Considering the contract that the Niners just handed out, and presuming that Cousins is paid even more, Winston's going to get paid handsomely. By the Bucs. The barometer's no longer, 'is the player a franchise QB'. The barometer is, 'can we win this QB'. And the answer to that is, yes. Need to improve the o-line and running game, as well as the defense. But as of now, Winston's among the top half of QB's in the league, IMHO. And he'll be the Bucs' starting QB for the next decade - health permitting. 

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Okay, I'll buy that they weren't horrible in pass blocking (but not in the same league as what I saw in the Super Bowl....oh my bad they are), BUT we also had the 27th ranked running game so even if pass blocking was good, they were a good part of why the team was one dimensional.

I'm not going to argue that he's an elite QB or that I'm confident that he will be, but I think he's a good QB and the team has much bigger problems that they need to address.

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2 hours ago, Bucaroo Bonzai said:

Okay, I'll buy that they weren't horrible in pass blocking (but not in the same league as what I saw in the Super Bowl....oh my bad they are), BUT we also had the 27th ranked running game so even if pass blocking was good, they were a good part of why the team was one dimensional.

I'm not going to argue that he's an elite QB or that I'm confident that he will be, but I think he's a good QB and the team has much bigger problems that they need to address.

This should just be a programmed auto response from the board at large to any ninny suggesting we move on from Winston. Or McCoy for that matter. Bigger problems to fix. 

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On 2/14/2018 at 8:31 PM, Bucaroo Bonzai said:

And yet his stats keep improving every year.  

Hmmm, I think that's debatable. If I could go stat geek for a moment - Winston's passer rating has improved marginally each of his 3 seasons, but his QBR actually plummeted almost 15 points this past season. Unlike the pure passer rating, the QBR takes fumbles , scrambles, and designated runs into account. (Winston has more fumbles than any NFL player over the past two seasons.  That's a huge concern.)  More importantly, the QBR also factors in situational results. You get less credit for padding stats during garbage time, and more credit if you throw a 5 yard clutch pass on 3rd down vs. a 5 yard out on 1st down. 

Admittedly I don't watch Bucs football as much as I used to, but from what I can see Winston just doesn't pass the eye test yet.  He hasn't changed one bit since his rookie year, not for the worse, or for the better.   He's maddeningly inconsistent - can throw a gorgeous thread-the-needle pass one play and then miss a wide open stationary player in the flat on the next.  As you said, he's young and there's time to improve, but some things can't be learned, or unlearned, and I think there's a good chance Winston is just going to be "that guy" for his career - the one who plays well enough to keep around especially considering the long investment of time and money that the Bucs have into him, but not well enough to carry a team that is built around him.  

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12 minutes ago, Pirate said:

Hmmm, I think that's debatable. If I could go stat geek for a moment - Winston's passer rating has improved marginally each of his 3 seasons, but his QBR actually plummeted almost 15 points this past season. Unlike the pure passer rating, the QBR takes fumbles , scrambles, and designated runs into account. (Winston has more fumbles than any NFL player over the past two seasons.  That's a huge concern.)  More importantly, the QBR also factors in situational results. You get less credit for padding stats during garbage time, and more credit if you throw a 5 yard clutch pass on 3rd down vs. a 5 yard out on 1st down. 

Admittedly I don't watch Bucs football as much as I used to, but from what I can see Winston just doesn't pass the eye test yet.  He hasn't changed one bit since his rookie year, not for the worse, or for the better.   He's maddeningly inconsistent - can throw a gorgeous thread-the-needle pass one play and then miss a wide open stationary player in the flat on the next.  As you said, he's young and there's time to improve, but some things can't be learned, or unlearned, and I think there's a good chance Winston is just going to be "that guy" for his career - the one who plays well enough to keep around especially considering the long investment of time and money that the Bucs have into him, but not well enough to carry a team that is built around him.  

I miss your old signatures. 

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