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Monument removal...

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Personally...should have been left alone...

 

...what gets pulled next? So much history in this country and not all of it is good. We going to tear everything down that might hurt someone's feelings? Do I like the meaning behind most of this shit...No! But I respect history, even though not all of it is as G rated as people would like.

 

Let's talk the Fleur De Lis the Saints wear!!! Where's the hate there?

 

I will support my Buc's, it's not gonna change my view of the team. But they should have butted out of this one!

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Personally...should have been left alone...

 

...what gets pulled next? So much history in this country and not all of it is good. We going to tear everything down that might hurt someone's feelings? Do I like the meaning behind most of this shit...No! But I respect history, even though not all of it is as G rated as people would like.

 

Let's talk the Fleur De Lis the Saints wear!!! Where's the hate there?

 

I will support my Buc's, it's not gonna change my view of the team. But they should have butted out of this one!

 

 

I say put all this stuff into a museum instead.  That way they're not trashed or buried or forgotten, but they're also not standing in front of courthouses or wherever as monument that are supposed to celebrate and commemorate the more unfortunate parts of American history.

 

I was something yesterday where someone was comparing this whole thing to the idea of making German Jews look at monuments to Hitler or Goebbels.  

 

Confederate monuments aren't a huge deal to me, it's a source of pride to some, but it's also a real source of pain for a lot of people, and that's not really what public sculpture and monuments should be about.

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Smells like more bullshit.

 

yes, we have history, not all of it good. But it is our history. The Holocaust happened. Are people shattered by being reminded of it? tear down the Holocaust museum and pretend it never happened? Not likely.

 

The Civil War was about more than slavery. I wonder if we'll ever get to the point where we can just live with history, instead of being afriad of who it offends.

 

I read a story recently about a school district, I believe it was in Oregon. A family donated the land for three schools decade ago. In return the school district named the schools after the family. Seems reasonable.

 

Now teh school district has decided to change the name of the three schools.

 

Why?

 

because the family that gave their money to donate the land for these schools where tens of thousands of kids received an education happened to be named "Lynch."

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2017/07/lynch_elementary_schools_will.html

 

There was an article recently about Princeton University dropping the Woodrow Wilson College of Something or another because Woodrow Wilson was a racist. That is probably true. So wipe Wilson from the face of the planet?

 

Time changes. People change. Attitudes change. Shit happens.

 

Heaven help us all.

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I say put all this stuff into a museum instead. That way they're not trashed or buried or forgotten, but they're also not standing in front of courthouses or wherever as monument that are supposed to celebrate and commemorate the more unfortunate parts of American history.

 

I was something yesterday where someone was comparing this whole thing to the idea of making German Jews look at monuments to Hitler or Goebbels.

 

Confederate monuments aren't a huge deal to me, it's a source of pride to some, but it's also a real source of pain for a lot of people, and that's not really what public sculpture and monuments should be about.

I 100% like the museum idea...

 

 

But where does it stop? Like I said, so much history that may not be liked...so do we tear it down and act like it didn't happen?

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I 100% like the museum idea...

 

 

But where does it stop? Like I said, so much history that may not be liked...so do we tear it down and act like it didn't happen?

 

It's not about forgetting history, it's about remembering, learning, and celebrating when appropriate.  That's a moving target and everyone's opinions are going to be different about where those lines are, but there are a few kinds of monuments... something like a World War II memorial isn't controversial, nearly everyone supports things like that.  But there are other kinds that can and do celebrate the worse aspects of our history, and those can be celebratory or they can serve as solemn reminders of our past wrongs.  

 

The stuff we see in Charlottesville is from people who want to celebrate racism, monuments that fall into that category should go.  

 

In Budapest theres a sculpture park where you can go and view all of the old communist statues that were removed.  It's a fascinating reminder of their history, but it's contextualized now in a way that isn't promoting Communism.  Here's a link to the Wikipedia page:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_Park

 

That's the way these monuments to the civil war should be treated, IMO.  

 

 

I'm so fucking tired of the left.. 

 

Need a tissue, snowflake?

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I think that the money raised to move a statue would have been far better used to help countries where there still is legal slavery today, or perhaps donate it to help stop sex slavery in this country---but let's not, let's just waste time, money, and thoughts on things that happened in the last millennium in a country that has had no human slaves for more than a century.

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i could care less about the monuments never thought of them.... but hey white culture in this country was built on hate of ppl of color... like it or not

 

I think hate is too strong a word here, but exploitation certainly fits.  The things that built this country are wildly disparate - on one side we have immigrant dreams, hard work, and boundless optimism.  On the other side we have institutional policies of slavery and genocide.

 

It all deserves remembering, but only one side is taught to our children.  And only one side should be commemorated.

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i could care less about the monuments never thought of them.... but hey white culture in this country was built on hate of ppl of color... like it or not

Welcome to majority of everything historically built. Not just America buddy.

 

Should the Pyramids be knocked down next? How about the Great Wall of China?

 

It's part of History, not saying it's good history. But it is what it is.

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If we are honest...

 

Those statues are celebrations of the losers of a war against the United States. Why are they in front of government buildings in the United States today? I haven't heard one person say that they need to be destroyed. They need to be put into context, not celebrated. They are symbols of oppression of our own citizens. Whether that is a museum or the like, they need to go. 

 

Robert E. Lee V himself admitted as much. 

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The most interesting case of monument removal is in Brooklyn where a couple of plaque's dedicated to Robert E Lee at St. John's Episcopal Church were removed. Lee served at Ft. Hamilton before the Civil War.

 

While I get the longevity angle some present, the overwhelming majority of these dedications come from a very different time when there was a very different point of view particularly when it comes to race relations. That has to be taken into account.

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If we are honest...

 

Those statues are celebrations of the losers of a war against the United States. Why are they in front of government buildings in the United States today? I haven't heard one person say that they need to be destroyed. They need to be put into context, not celebrated. They are symbols of oppression of our own citizens. Whether that is a museum or the like, they need to go. 

 

Robert E. Lee V himself admitted as much. 

 

To some they are also symbols of states rights to "alter or to abolish" unrepresentative and oppressive governments. Difficult though that may be to understand what it meant in today's view of the evolved power of Washington vs any state or individuals, there were those, like Robert E Lee, who were opposed to disunion but chose to support his state because he was first a Virginian. 

 

Whether monuments should stand, be moved, or destroyed, as well as names changed or images removed, is an issue which should be decided locally where they were established. Peacefully, lawfully, and with due process. 

 

I find it hard to believe though that this growing movement is solely steeped in racism or history.

 

This is about power. This is fueled by an expanding hubris borne of recent decades of success. And now less axiological than an opportunity being seized by the powerful and political.

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I find it hard to believe though that this growing movement is solely steeped in racism or history.

 

This is about power. This is fueled by an expanding hubris borne of recent decades of success. And now less axiological than an opportunity being seized by the powerful and political.

 

No idea what any of this shit means but this is all about political lines which may be further narrowed down to how you feel about one person.

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The reality is that there is no solution. The race-baiters who squeal the loudest are the least offended. They just want to see all of you trip over each other racing to the microphone to see who's first in denouncing facism, Nazi-ism, racism, nationalism, (fill-in-the-blank)-ism.

 

And just as their victims are patting themselves on the backs telling each other how enlightened they are, the race-baiters declare some other object of personal and racial offense, and it all repeats.

 

Meanwhile, the rest of us who have been living and working in harmony with all races and sexual preferences can see this happening and can't understand why everyone else can't (or won't) see it. And it makes us want to slap these victims repeatedly in the face until they finally understand they're being played.

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To some they are also symbols of states rights to "alter or to abolish" unrepresentative and oppressive governments. Difficult though that may be to understand what it meant in today's view of the evolved power of Washington vs any state or individuals, there were those, like Robert E Lee, who were opposed to disunion but chose to support his state because he was first a Virginian. 

 

Whether monuments should stand, be moved, or destroyed, as well as names changed or images removed, is an issue which should be decided locally where they were established. Peacefully, lawfully, and with due process. 

 

I find it hard to believe though that this growing movement is solely steeped in racism or history.

 

This is about power. This is fueled by an expanding hubris borne of recent decades of success. And now less axiological than an opportunity being seized by the powerful and political.

 

 

Unfortunately it has become political when it should not be.

 

This symbol of resistance to an oppressive government is complete bullshit. Most of these monuments were erected in the time of Jim Crow laws to remind non-white folk who was really in charge. The current Johnny Rebs are living in a fantasy world where the South was wronged and will defend their rebel pride regardless of reality. 

 

The reality is the monuments are a celebration of people who fought a war against the United States over wanting to keep slaves and lost. That alone is reason enough for their removal. At least in a decent, moral society.

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